He does not say the suffering is forever and ever.
There is a verse saying the torment is age lasting.
You take a verse showing the vials of wrath and apply it to the last judgment.
That is wrong.
LA
Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
- Start date
He does not say the suffering is forever and ever.
There is a verse saying the torment is age lasting.
You take a verse showing the vials of wrath and apply it to the last judgment.
That is wrong.
LA
Aimiel
Well-known member
Ditto.
Dear LA,
I'm sorry, but yes, it does mean for ever!! FOREVER!! Some will have cool breezes and a great, fun life, and intriguing places in the Universe to visit and be awed by, and some will burn in hydrogen/helium/sulfur forever. That is the indication of it all. We're all adults. We play an adult game now. For those who want to remain sinners, let them. That's what God told to Satan and Lucifer. And the beast, antichrist, and false prophet, and those 666 persons who received the mark of the beast. It's just how it goes. They were evil in past lifetimes also, and so, they are destined for what they get. Bye Adolf!! Bye Pharoah!! Bye Mussolini! Burn!! Fry!! You reap what you sow!!
Time To Move On,
Michael
I'm sorry, but yes, it does mean for ever!! FOREVER!! Some will have cool breezes and a great, fun life, and intriguing places in the Universe to visit and be awed by, and some will burn in hydrogen/helium/sulfur forever. That is the indication of it all. We're all adults. We play an adult game now. For those who want to remain sinners, let them. That's what God told to Satan and Lucifer. And the beast, antichrist, and false prophet, and those 666 persons who received the mark of the beast. It's just how it goes. They were evil in past lifetimes also, and so, they are destined for what they get. Bye Adolf!! Bye Pharoah!! Bye Mussolini! Burn!! Fry!! You reap what you sow!!
Time To Move On,
Michael
Eternal conscious suffering in hell is not taught in the Bible.
The RCC likes the idea, it keeps people in fear and going to church.
LA
Dear L.A.
See Revelation 20:10.
I can't believe you missed it?!
God Be With You In These Things,
Michael
See Revelation 20:10.
I can't believe you missed it?!
God Be With You In These Things,
Michael
I think we will just agree to disagree until Christ returns.
The truth will be revealed then. We have the Scriptures now, it is matter of believing them. It seems to be a matter of will rather than belief. Some people don't want to give up their traditions until they are forced to at Christ's return. I wouldn't want to be one of those people. But I don't think having a view of hell as eternal conscious torment will necessarily cause anyone to lose out on eternal life with Christ, as long as they don't also reject Him when He doesn't do what they want Him to do.
MichaelCadry,
re: "See Revelation 20:10."
"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet (are), and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." Revelation 20:10 (KJV)
The verse only says that the devil is to be tormented for ever and ever. Nothing is said about anyone else.
re: "See Revelation 20:10."
"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet (are), and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." Revelation 20:10 (KJV)
The verse only says that the devil is to be tormented for ever and ever. Nothing is said about anyone else.
Aimiel
Well-known member
I guess you've cut this verse out of your Bible then, right?
Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
The ones worshipping the beast and his image are PEOPLE. Their torment continues eternally, since the smoke arising from their torment ascends eternally. That is what Scripture says. I believe Scripture, not you.
Aimiel
Well-known member
The 'false prophet' is a human. The 'beast' is a human. They are demon-possessed, but they are still human. Revelation 14:11 says that all men who worship the beast and his image will be tormented forever.
Ardima
New member
For ever and ever makes absolutely no sense. If you add an extra ever to forever does it make forever any longer? The correct translation is "for ages and ages"; or, "to the age of ages".
Besides that, there is a contextual timeframe given. Day and night indicates a limited amount of time because when time ceases to exist, there will no longer be day and night.
Ben Masada
New member
...and only while we live. Once dead, the torment is over. God is love. So, He would not allow us to live forever in torment.
Ben Masada
New member
Not really. Perhaps only according to the NT. What God teaches is that man cannot live forever. (Gen. 3:22) Death is the only thing eternal about man.
What does the verse really say--
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
It does NOT say the beast and false prophet are suffering forever in the lake of fire.
It says only that that is where they are, and the verse is saying the devil is tormented day and night forever, which in itself is rather a strange statement if it should be thought that day and night is forever and ever.
We should consider further what that verse are other verses are really saying, instead of jumping to conclusions from what is NOT in the verse.
However, having said all that, the KJV is wrong, and should be "they shall be being ordealized."
Who here has a more correct translation, and what does ordealized mean?
BTW, my view is punishment before annihilation.
LA
No.
You describe the vials of wrath and not the last judgment.
and it is the smoke which rises eternally which is only stating the result of the event.
Read the vials and the last vial of wrath includes--
Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Rev 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
Rev 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
Rev 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
Rev 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
LA
Ardima
New member
Revelation 21:25 and 22:5.
That is for the resurrected saints in the Holy City.(the light)
Read my previous post.
LA
John 3:15
Ardima
New member
This is a rebuttal how? (Genuinely asking)
Ardima
New member
When we can stand in His Glory do you think that it will be contained within a city? Besides, that point still does not nullify that day and night marks a period of time.