GuySmiley
Well-known member
No, I think the words eternal punishment are fine. Do you think the Bible that says the wages of sin is death should actually say the wages of sin is a life of eternal conscious torment?
Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
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GuySmiley,
re: "Do you think the Bible that says the wages of sin is death should actually say the wages of sin is a life of eternal conscious torment?"
Well, that is what those who for some reason relish the idea of eternal conscious torture for the unsaved interpret it to mean.
re: "Do you think the Bible that says the wages of sin is death should actually say the wages of sin is a life of eternal conscious torment?"
Well, that is what those who for some reason relish the idea of eternal conscious torture for the unsaved interpret it to mean.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Do you realize that It actually says that?
Revelation 13:5-8
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
God's Truth
New member
It is not about you. It is about Chrysostom speaking lies about me.
You would stand up for a person who for personally attacks others.
As for him reading the Bible and believing what he reads, he does not, for he is a Catholic. He does not believe Jesus says not to call his brothers 'father'. He does not believe God who says do not bow to the works of your hands, and other such things.
God's Truth
New member
Could you explain some things to me?
If the soul cannot be killed, then how do those not saved just stop existing?
In Matt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Could you explain to me how eternal life is in fact eternal, but eternal punishment is not really eternal punishment, since the dead will not know they are dead?
Matthew 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Can you explain this to me...
Matthew 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Mark 9:48 where "'the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.'
When in hell, if the worms do not die, how is it that the unsaved will die?
Can you explain this to me? How does anyone die if death is thrown in the lake of fire?
Revelation 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
God's Truth
New member
If someone here thinks those not saved will cease to exist, please answer my questions.
Why the fire is eternal if the people in it are long gone?
Matthew 25:40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
If the people do not go on eternally, then how will they be tormented day and night for ever and ever?
Revelation 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Why the fire is eternal if the people in it are long gone?
Matthew 25:40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
If the people do not go on eternally, then how will they be tormented day and night for ever and ever?
Revelation 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
see aimiel - ya gotta read it with yer red glasses on, like timmy does
You could just read what it says, like I do, and not what you wish it would have said. That passage does NOT say that the torment continues forever. It says the SMOKE ascends forever.
God's Truth
New member
I don't think we should want those worms. lol
Does it SAY the people are alive and on fire forever?
OR does it just say the fire is eternal?
Since the Bible says that the fire destroys the wicked, that's what I'm going to believe.
God's Truth
New member
The scripture says it is the smoke OF THEIR TORMENT.
If they are no longer tormented, then how can there be smoke?
you'd think those worms would starve to death if there was nothing to eat
poor worms
poor worms
God's Truth
New member
You did not answer my question. Tell me, why is there any fire anymore if they cease to exist.
I answered your question. The Bible DOES NOT say that the people remain alive forever in the fire, only that the fire remains. The Bible does not say WHY the fire remains forever, so neither will I. To do so would be speculation without Biblical evidence, and I don't do that.
I won't add to what the Bible says. If the Bible say that the lost go to hell when they die where they are tormented alive forever, simply tell me the verse that says that. I can tell you that the wages of sin is death. The verse that says this is Romans 6:23. Since the wages of sin is death, I know that the wages of sin is not eternal conscious torment in hell.
The smoke from their destruction ascends forever, just like the Bible says.
Aimiel
Well-known member
:rotfl:see aimiel - ya gotta read it with yer red glasses on, like timmy does
Aimiel
Well-known member
Let me get this straight... the smoke arises from torment but the ones who were being tormented are long gone... it just keeps rising for ever and ever? Think about that for a few years... smoke rising from their torment would dissipate... not keep rising for ever and ever. :duh:
God's Truth
New member
You do not answer all my questions.
If you won't add to the Bible, why do you take away?
There will be no rest for them day or night, and the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever.
Revelation 14:9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”