Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
- Start date
Aimiel
Well-known member
Actually, it is based on a rather lengthy study of Scripture which has long ago backed up a rather cursory glance at same Scripture.
Because they know how to read and understand English. :duh:
Inspired Pauline truth? Are you referring to the many NT references where Paul promoted Sunday observance?
Is it true that Paul advocated Sunday observance in all of his letters?
Help me find those verses. I am especially looking for the verse where Paul explained that Jesus was not really the Lord of the Sabbath, that it was all just a misunderstanding.
Yeah, that's the one I'm looking for.
God's Truth
New member
You are a modalist aren't you?
Ardima
New member
What does the sabbath have to do with the OP? There are many other threads to discuss the observance of the Sabbath...
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The Lord of the Sabbath can lead the Church to emphasize Sunday resurrection over Jewish creation week.
Serpent is clueless and lacks credibility and integrity.
I am a MONOTHEIST, not a modalist, as you know. I am trinitarian and reject your modalistic-like views.:chew:
People get sectarian over peripheral issues creating unnecessary confusion/division.
She has more than one error with the Deity of Christ being the vastly more important issue to settle than worship days that were not reiterated in the NT (but rescinded in principle).
:chz4brnz:
:yawn: Ad hominem
You are an antichrist (1 Jn 4:2-6). :reals:
See:
The Jesus test, the gospel test, and the fruit test
SD: “ Could he [Jesus] have sinned?
Godrulz: “I believe He could have, but did not…” link
See:
Godrulz
:yawn: I reject Calvinism (Eph 4:14).
When one offends an eternal and holy God (Jn 1:1, Heb 4:14) his punishment is rightly everlasting (2 Thess 1:9). :burnlib:
"..."[D]eath does not mean annihilation, but separation. Adam and Eve died spiritually the moment thye sinned, yet they still existed and could hear God's voice (Gen. 2:17; cf. 3:10). Likewise, before one is saved, he is "dead in trespasses and sins" (Eph. 2:1), and yet he is still in God's mage (Gen. 1:27; cf. 9:6; James 3:9) and is called on to believe (Acts 16:31) and to repent (Acts 17:30) and be saved (Geisler, Howe, pg. 493)."
I affirm the triune God, Deity and resurrection of Christ, virgin conception, humanity of Christ, etc. (just like YOU do, so if I am antichrist, then logically you are too). I do not fit the Docetic/incipient Gnostic heresy I Jn. is talking about. You are an idiot.
What part of "I" of Jesus was saying His Father was greater than Himself.(also singular)
Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
LA
What percentage of deity was Jesus?
SD: “ Could he [Jesus] have sinned?
Godrulz: “I believe He could have, but did not…” link
See:
Godrulz
"Many believe Christ to be a savior, but not the Savior. These skeptics put Jesus in the same class with Mohammed, Buddha, Confucius, Ghandi, and others. But Jesus was unique. He was God in human flesh — 100% God and 100% man..." Full text: Who Is This Man Called Jesus? by Adrian Rogers
:yawn: Intensional Ga 5:9, Eph 4:14
SD: "Was there ever a time that Jesus did not exist? Jn 1:1 Was Jesus raised bodily?
Godrulz: "...I answered your question as no, but it needs qualification, lest we teach a false view that the body of Jesus of Nazareth from Mary is eternal (it was not)." link
:yawn: Ad hominem
If Jesus could sin, then he could die. Jesus defeated sin. He was not overcome by it.
""...[D]eath spread to all men" (Rom 5:12)...
...Christ abolished death officially when He personally defeated it by His resurrection. However, physical death will not be completely destroyed actually until He returns again and "death is swallowed up in victory" (1 Cor. 15:54)." Geisler, Howe, pg. 503)."
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This relates to position during incarnation/humiliation, not essential equality of nature before, during, after incarnation. Your view leads to contradiction with other verses.
Your view speaks of another jesus who was never human at all, having no nature of man whatever, no human spirit from Adam.
LA
Mary contributed the full humanity of Christ. His lineage is human back to Adam like ours is.
The trinity/incarnation/Deity of Christ affirms the full Deity and humanity of Christ, one person with two natures. Deity added humanity without ceasing to be Deity (Jn. 1; Phil. 2). Those who deny His Deity are Arian. Those who deny His humanity are Docetic, etc. You misrepresent my view that fully affirms genuine humanity, genuine Deity in one person (unique).
The virgin conception makes this possible.
:yawn: Ad hominem
What do you mean by God when you say God-man? Do you mean Jehovah God? Isa 10:21. Is Jesus co-equal and co-eternal with God, the Father?
See:
His Undiminished Deity (right click, open) by Adrian Rogers
:yawn: You're projecting again. :noway: Eph 4:14
SD: “ Could he [Jesus] have sinned?
Godrulz: “I believe He could have, but did not…” link
See:
Godrulz
God cannot err (Heb 6:18; Tit 1:2; Jn 17:17).
So just what part of Jesus was divine?
Jesus did not have two Spirits, one human and another divine.
Rather it was that His human spirit was without the effects of sin at His birth and was kept that way by the word of God and oversight of His Father.
Jesus is no example to others if He was God at birth and neither could God be tempted or die as Jesus did.
Your view presents a false view of Jesus who is not a mediator between men and God.
LA
Jesus is perfect and without sin. His holiness does not change. He was made human subject to change but without sin (Heb 4:15). He is worthy of worship.
"The Bible declares that Jesus was absolutely perfect and without sin, even in His human nature (2 Cor. 5:21; Heb. 4:15; 1 Peter 2:22; 3:18; 1 John 3:3)...
Jesus was absolutely and unchangeably perfect in His divine nature. God is perfect (Matt. 5:48), and He cannot change (Mal. 3:6; Heb. 6:18). But Jesus was also human, and as such was subject to change, though without sin. For example, "Jesus increased in wisdom and stature" (Luke 2:52)....He "learned obedience by the things which He suffered" (Heb. 5:8). In this sense He was "made perfect" in that He experienced the perfecting work of suffering in His own sinless life (cf. Job 23:10; Heb. 12:11; James 1:2-4). That is, He gained all the experiential benefits of suffering without sinning (Heb. 4:15). In this way He can be of real comfort and encouragement to those who suffer....
The writer of Hebrews speaks...about Christ's coming so "that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil." Geisler, Howe, pg. 511.
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Jesus is one person with two natures, not two human spirits. He is fully God, fully man. How these natures relate in detail is not revealed, but the fact that He is God incarnate is explicit.
serpent: The Father, Son, Holy Spirit are one God by nature/substance/essence/being with 3 personal distinctions that are co-equal, co-eternal, co-essential.
AMR is an expert on the trinity and knows that I am trinitarian arguing against modalism and Arianism. I read the trinitarian scholars that you quote in agreement.
You accuse me of being modalistic. You think the impeccability of Christ debate is tantamount to denying the trinity (no, it is a denial of philosophical Aquinas, Augustine, Anselm, not the Bible).
You have no credibility or integrity. Go back to your day job. Theology is over your head.
AMR is an expert on the trinity and knows that I am trinitarian arguing against modalism and Arianism. I read the trinitarian scholars that you quote in agreement.
You accuse me of being modalistic. You think the impeccability of Christ debate is tantamount to denying the trinity (no, it is a denial of philosophical Aquinas, Augustine, Anselm, not the Bible).
You have no credibility or integrity. Go back to your day job. Theology is over your head.