Levolor
New member
I surely misunderstand you... are you saying that we cannot be of Christ Jesus' family?
For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.” Matthew 12:50
Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
- Start date
I surely misunderstand you... are you saying that we cannot be of Christ Jesus' family?
For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.” Matthew 12:50
Depends on what the meaning of God is (Jn 1:1). :freak:
SD: “ Could he [Jesus] have sinned?
Godrulz: “I believe He could have, but did not…” link
Godrulz
Jesus' blood was: sinless blood, innocent blood, God's blood (Ac 20:28). Too bad you make no distinction between sinful men (Ps 51:5) and sinless Jesus (Heb 4:15).
"Too bad." :chz4brnz: ~ Seth Brundle, The Fly
See:
His Unequaled Birth (right click, open) by Adrian Rogers
Levolor
New member
Yes.
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Colossians 1:27
He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; Matthew 13:37
Christ said Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Luke 8:11
And we know that the word of God is God.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1
As far as I know a seed replicates itself.
Indeed.
For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Acts 17:28
Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord. Jeremiah 23:24
Oops. I neglected to take a look at the link you provided. Based on what else you said though, ignorance is curable. God is an expert at removing it. Let us trust God.
Yes?
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
subject exhaust......
subject exhaust......
Yes, 'ignorance' is the only sin, according to some schools. 'Light' (gnosis) is its remedy. I've exposed ECT on certain grounds that I find problematic and insane, hence the expounding. I've elucidated such thru-out the thread. I'll be moving on soon.
pj
subject exhaust......
Oops. I neglected to take a look at the link you provided. Based on what else you said though, ignorance is curable. God is an expert at removing it. Let us trust God.
Yes?
Yes, 'ignorance' is the only sin, according to some schools. 'Light' (gnosis) is its remedy. I've exposed ECT on certain grounds that I find problematic and insane, hence the expounding. I've elucidated such thru-out the thread. I'll be moving on soon.
pj
God does not have the free will to violate what is just.
Levolor
New member
For me, I'd say that the only sin is fear. But, alas, it too is caused by ignorance. Anyhow, fear being the only sin can be supported biblically whereas ignorance would be a much more difficult endeavor. So, while I agree completely, I'd have to say that it is also 'trust' that is the remedy, since that takes a person to the same place.
I hadn't kept up with thread and only recently joined in. Don't leave on my account, okay?
Yes, any view that has God appearing as capable of loving less than we are able to do, is in error. The ECT doctrine has created many an atheist. At least they are protecting the purity of God that they believe God would have (if there is one... in their view since God can't be if God is a dictator and tormentor). (Not sure that made much since... hopefully you grabbed my drift.)
Levolor
New member
I appreciate reading your thoughts.
Though, I am unsure of what you mean in certain areas. I have underlined them in your quote.
Thanking you in advance for helping me to understand your meanings.
We are in right relationship with God and part of His family by adoption. We partake of the divine nature, in a limited sense. God is uncreated Creator, God, Deity. We are created beings, creatures.
Views that imply we are gods in some sense ontologically/metaphysically blur the distinction between Creator and creature (false teaching that elevates man and denigrates God...e.g. New Age; Mormonsim).
You and I both agree on essential doctrine of God/Christology.
We differ on philosophical views of hamartiology (doctrine of sin as moral vs metaphysical).
We both strongly affirm that God is perfect, holy, sinless and that the God-Man, Jesus, is also sinless (always was, always will be).
Levolor
New member
Thank you for clarifying your view for me.
I now wonder if you think any of that changes when we become like Christ Jesus?
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2
Of course,prior to this blessed event, there is a change made in an individual... from that of a child of the devil to a child of God.
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17
When Christ had returned, the early church ascended like Enoch had. And this was while the Israelite temple was being destroyed by the Romans.
Levolor
New member
There are qualifications to the image of God and post-resurrection life.
The main way we are like God/Christ is character based (Mormons are wrong to think God has a physical body/Father or that they will progress to be gods too). We will be holy, loving, righteous, etc., but we will not be ontologically/metaphysically God/Deity (eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, perfection of character are unique to God). We are like Him in kind, but not perfect qualitatively from the beginning.
We also know that Christ is first fruits and we will also have an imperishable glorified body in the resurrection state. The details are not revealed, but parameters keep us from blurring divine/human distinctions (being vs personal/moral attributes).
Levolor
New member
Thank you for saying what your beliefs are. Surely I shall understand them better as I read more of your posts about this topic.
(As for the comment about the Mormons: not saying that they are right or wrong in this, but each denomination has error, as well as truth, in it. Or so I believe.)
Have a Merry Christmas!
When a person becomes one in Spirit with Christ and the Father what distinctions are you suggesting remain?
Why do you believe humans were not made in God's image and likeness when God says they were.
Thank you for saying what your beliefs are. Surely I shall understand them better as I read more of your posts about this topic.
(As for the comment about the Mormons: not saying that they are right or wrong in this, but each denomination has error, as well as truth, in it. Or so I believe.)
Have a Merry Christmas!
Mormons are a pseudo-Christian cult, not a Christian denomination. Denominations agree on the essentials of the faith (basic creeds, etc.), while JWs, Mormons, Christian Science, Moonies, Islam, etc. denies them.
Otherwise, yes, every group is a mix of truth and error (but essential is salvific vs peripheral issues).
I affirm the Imago Dei, but there is debate on what this means.
God alone is uncreated Creator, eternal spirit, triune, omni, etc.
Man is finite, created. We are in the image of God as to spiritual nature, personal nature, character, etc., but we are not God ontologically/metaphysically.
He states that He alone is God. He forms no gods before or after Him. Who is like you, O Lord? No one. There is no God like you.
He alone is worthy of worship, unique.
We are not identical to God in every sense. This is not what the image of God means.
Denying your wrong view of it is not denying the biblical view of it.
Jesus is also unique. He alone is eternal God/Deity who added humanity, the God-Man. We can reflect His character, be glorified with a resurrection body, etc., but we are not the eternal Word made flesh (Jn. 1:1-14).
Again, God is God and we are not. Too many are false god players (idolatry/blasphemy, the lie of Satan in the garden).
Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Jesus is a man.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Luk 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luk 24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Luk 24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Luk 24:40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
Rev 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
Rev 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. Rev 5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Jesus is a man.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Luk 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luk 24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Luk 24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Luk 24:40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
Rev 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
Rev 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. Rev 5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
What does Satan have to do with humans becoming one with God?