Is Enyart worshipped like Jesus
- Thread starter Delmar
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No. I don't say stop following the guy. But the nicer than God stuff is not right, and that is what I have a problem with. But it's compounded by the fierce devotion to him on this board. That's what freaks me out a little. I know most of what Bob teaches is good, but his style needs a little work, and his style stems from the nicer than God teaching. That's all I have against him. I'm sure he's a good man in general. I'd love to talk to him but not on national radio.Clete said:
Okay, this is a reasonable position given the state of the church in this country. I can live with this but since we are on a debate forum how about we debate the whole nicer than God thing rather than trying to make Bob out to be some sort of cult leader when you know he isn't anything of the sort. If you want to see a bunch of people turn on Bob Enyart, let him start, for even one moment, acting like he's the messiah incarnate or some other wacko nonsense like that. I can assure you that Bob would sooner allow himself to be eaten alive by wild dogs before permiting anyone to worship him for even a fraction of a second.The Edge said:
Now, what is it exactly that you don't like about this nicer than God thing? Do you think we should be nicer than God, or don't you think that it is even possible to be nicer than God, or what?
Resting in Him,
Clete
I know you're not addressing me specifically, but I think we should love one another, as God commanded us. God isn't always nice. In the Old Testament, God killed people, burned a whole city, hardened Pharaoh's heart only to smack him down, destroyed races, and drowned millions of people. Does that mean we have the right to do the same? Certainly not. He is God, we are not. We are not entitled to behave like God. You can argue and quibble all you want about the way Jesus treated people and the way God treats people. However, Jesus was very clear about how we were to behave: Love our enemies, do good to people who hate us, pray for those who curse us.
In Matthew 5:21-22 Jesus says, "Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."
James 3 tells us of the powers of the tongue and warns us about how we use our tongue:
3:1
My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
3:2
For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
3:3
Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.
3:4
Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
3:5
Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
3:6
And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
3:7
For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
3:8
But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
3:9
Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
3:10
Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
3:11
Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
3:12
Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
James 4:11 warns us: "Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of [his] brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge."
God tells us what is right and wrong. We don't have to and shouldn't infer by His actions.
Very well said, Johnny. It's so plain in the Bible how we are to treat others, yet these people think otherwise, and it is very sad to see Christians do so. I'm probably going to build my own case against "Nicer than God" because that is my chief problem with Bob Enyart. I agree with his views on the death penalty, I agree with spanking children (though not to the extreme that Enyart did) and I agree with him on the fundamentals of the gospel. But I don't buy into this Nicer than God stuff and I'll start a new thread about it when and if I build my case. I think it's wrong and antiscriptural, and the problem here is that nearly everyone who follows Enyart buys into this writing wholeheartedly and is unwilling to give it up. And if I start this thread about it, I invite Bob Enyart himself to come in and kindly discuss it humanely, if that's possible.
Edge, once again you demonstrate that you are a real jerk. I just told you he accepts emails and off-the-air calls. He also accepts "snail" mail. If he did accept PMs, it would probably be the slowest way to get in touch with him, since he's on TOL infrequently.The Edge said:
You don't accept emails sent through TOL's system. Should we all assume you have some fiendish motive for that?
Of course not.So you'll only talk in public? Didn't you just say that this is the mark of someone who likes to humiliate?
Before you said, " I am somewhat interested in where he's coming from." :think:
It's easier to take potshots at someone who isn't around.
JoyfulRook
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:darwinsm:The Edge said:
"Come here Bono (the Edge's son), lemme give you a little swat..."
Exactly! Bob couldn't have said it better himself.Johnny said:
We don't have the right to destroy races and cause worldwide floods because we do not have the authority to do those things, not because they are unloving or ungodly.
We aren't entitled to behave like God? Are you sure you don't want to take that one back? I can establish very easily that the Bible teaches that we are to be immitators of God. I'll wait to do so until you've had a chance to change you mind about this point.
Further, Jesus is God and God is not inconsistent with Himself. I submit that you have a distorted understanding of what it means to love your enemy and to do good to those who hate you.
Every time someone quotes these verses in this context I just have to scratch my head. I really don't get it. How does this help your case? The only way it would is if you read it as though the words "without cause" weren't in there. But they are in there and so this doesn't help you at all. In fact this is the essence of what Bob teaches. These two verses aren't exactly a nicey nice thing to say to someone. Can you imagine telling your next door neighbor that if he is angry at someone without cause that he is in danger of Hell fire? How "nice" would that be? Not very. And that's just the point Bob is trying to make.
Again, I'm scatching my head. By just quoting this passage, you are doing the very thing that you are complaining about Bob doing, are you not?
Who is your brother in this context?
What? You cannot mean this. Do you realize that you have basically just said that God says "Do as I say, not as I do"! That's blasphemy! God does not say one thing and do another. If you think He does, you've misunderstood either His word, or His actions or both.
Resting in Him,
Clete
The Edge said:
This is closer to what I was getting at.
The way people have fierce devotion with him, and often don't even question what he says.
Do people worship Enyart? Well, they don't ask him into their heart, etc. But if one claims to love Jesus, they should see some big contradictions between what Enyart says, and what Jesus says, and to choose Enyart over Jesus...
Well, actions speak louder than words.
Here's an example..... Jesus says the greatest commandent is love one another, but Enyart says it's ok to mock and insult. And I see a lot of it coming from Enyart followers, much more than love. I guess that's one of the biggest examples. Just look at Turbo's last post #428.
Of course we are commanded to be His followers and to imitate Him within the boundaries He sets forth. But no, we don't always have the right or authority to behave like God. You've already admitted to that.
By definition it cannot be ungodly. As to whether or not it is unloving is a different question. Some would argue that God is always loving. Yet He hated Esau, even before Esau was born. There are a few instances of God's hate in the Old Testament. We are commanded to love.
As I argued with Lighthouse, "without cause" is only included with anger. It is not included with the latter two instances, and I believe for a reason. I've looked at a lot of commentary on this passage and none of them seem to suggest that without cause should be extended to the latter two. Further, some even noted that it is debated whether or not "without cause" is included at all. Some of the newer translations do not include it.
Truely. But those aren't my words and my judgements, those are God's words and God's judgements. Calling someone a moron or insulting someone's intelligence is not speaking the word of God or passing the judgement of God upon them.
Christians.
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Poly
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beanieboy said:
I'm sick of your lies beanboy! How would you know if anybody has ever accepted what he has to say without questioning it? You absolutely do not. You make false accusations simply because you don't like the man. It's one thing to not like somebody but to be so shallow and low as to make up things about people just because you don't like them is childlike. You whine and you cry that people treat you unfairly. Yet you don't hesitate in being unfair to others by saying things about them that aren't true.
Poly said:
Does Enyart say that it is okay to hate sinners?
Is this really biblical, or contrary to what Christ says?
Does Enyart say that God's love is conditional - that he only loves Christians, and not the unsaved?
Is this biblical or contrary to what Christ says?
It's not Enyart that I have a problem with. It's that he has many followers that follow what he says, or the twisted things he claims the bible to say, and therefore, twists the hearts of men.
In short, he is a modern day Pharisee, and Jesus was very, very angry at the Pharisees because they were misleading people away from God.
Poly
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beanieboy said:
All of this is a mere distraction to take the focus off of your lie.
Beanie you said people accept what he says without questioning it which you said they do often. Can you prove this to be true?
The Edge said:
It is loving to mock and insult evil people. If it were not God would not have done it repeatedly in the Bible.
You guys are going to have to do better than this. This post is nothing more than "Bob is wrong because I don't like what he says and how he says it." If Bob is truly wrong than I trully want to know about it (and so does he, by the way) but you've got to get more substantive than this or you have no chance of convincing anyone of anything.
Resting in Him,
Clete