Is Enyart worshipped like Jesus

[Clete]

You keep using false definitions, Clete, in order to keep in agreement with Enyart.

I'm using the exact same definitions that Bob uses because I'm smart enough to figure out what both he and God are saying when they say things like what is said in Luke 14:26 and elswhere.

 

[Poly]

Many here claim that they can hate people in the name of God.

Is that good enough?

Hardly. Do people here who believe that just accept it blindly or do they give scripture to back it up? They give scripture. You may not agree with it but they back it up biblically NOT because somebody says it's true and so they accept that without question. You are a liar.

Another example, Poly.
Clete hates in the name of God.

So Clete hating in the name of God is your proof that people accept what somebody says without questioning it? Has Clete said that he bases this off of anything other than scripture? Show me one time where he says he believes this because he's just taking somebody else's word without questioning it rather than showing that he believes it based on what God says in the bible. You won't be able to do it. You have not proven that people accept what Bob says and don't even question it.

You are a liar.

 

[beanieboy]

I'm using the exact same definitions that Bob uses because I'm smart enough to figure out what both he and God are saying when they say things like what is said in Luke 14:26 and elswhere.

So, you take Bob's definitions over Websters and most people's standard of what the word means, and then let the new definitions color what Christ says.

Interersting.
Poly? Another example.
It disagrees with most people's definition of the word, and Websters, and changes the meaning, and then is believed as Truth. And there is a continued use of Bob and I think...
Most of what is said is Bob, and Clete simply dittos it.

One would think they would be closer reflecting on what God says, rather than on what Bob says God says...

 

[Clete]

How?
Killing someone who commits adultery gets them to heaven how?

50% of the people executed in the Bible who needed to repent actually did so before they died. That's a pretty good percentage, I'd say.

Further, the criminals are not the only people effected by their execution. If we executed adulterers we would not have the murder rate, nor the divorce rate we have, nor the teen suicide rate, nor the teen pregnancy rate and therefore not the abortion rate that we have today. And there are about a thousand other positive benefits that a society reaps from this single just law. The whole society is elevated in righteousness and so fewer people are led astray away from God. The law teaches a people what is right and what is wrong, thus a just law teaches people about what God is like and thus more people follow him and fewer go to Hell. Get it?

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Clete]

So, you take Bob's definitions over Websters and most people's standard of what the word means, and then let the new definitions color what Christ says.

Interersting.
Poly? Another example.
It disagrees with most people's definition of the word, and Websters, and changes the meaning, and then is believed as Truth. And there is a continued use of Bob and I think...
Most of what is said is Bob, and Clete simply dittos it.

One would think they would be closer reflecting on what God says, rather than on what Bob says God says...

Do you know what a figure of speech is? Words don't always carry their dictionary meanings and they almost never carry ONLY their dictionary meanings. You have to put at least A LITTLE BIT of effort into trying to figure out what is really being said. I'm through responding on this particular point. You can't be this stupid.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Clete]

Hardly. Do people here who believe that just accept it blindly or do they give scripture to back it up? They give scripture. You may not agree with it but they back it up biblically NOT because somebody says it's true and so they accept that without question. You are a liar.


So Clete hating in the name of God is your proof that people accept what somebody says without questioning it? Has Clete said that he bases this off of anything other than scripture? Show me one time where he says he believes this because he's just taking somebody else's word without questioning it rather than showing that he believes it based on what God says in the bible. You won't be able to do it. You have not proven that people accept what Bob says and don't even question it.

You are a liar.

:BRAVO: Now that's some real GODLY truthsmakin' right there!

See Johnny? This is a terrific example of what Bob is getting at. Speaking the truth, period and allowing the offense of it to work its ministry.

Excellent post Poly!

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[beanieboy]

Do you know what a figure of speech is? Words don't always carry their dictionary meanings and they almost never carry ONLY their dictionary meanings. You have to put at least A LITTLE BIT of effort into trying to figure out what is really being said. I'm through repsonding on this particular point. You can't be this stupid.

Resting in Him,
Clete

That's like saying, "I'm a Christian." And when I say Christian, it's a figure of speech to say I believe in an unnamed "God-like" force, and am Buddhist.

Hate is never a figure of speech for love.

You are really reaching on this one. No, I'm not that stupid, and that is why I disagree with YOUR versions of words that aren't in agreement with the dictionary.

When you look up "starving", for example, and say, "I am starving" it is a figure of speech that means "i'm really hungry."

Now - the definition:

1. To suffer or die from extreme or prolonged lack of food.
2. Informal. To be hungry.
3. To suffer from deprivation.
4. Archaic. To suffer or die from cold.


#2 - a figure of speech.

It doesn't have one for nice, or for hate.

To believe that you somehow know something that Websters doesn't is stupid.

 

[beanieboy]

:BRAVO: Now that's some real GODLY truthsmakin' right there!

See Johnny? This is a terrific example of what Bob is getting at. Speaking the truth, period and allowing the offense of it to work its ministry.

Excellent post Poly!

Resting in Him,
Clete

Only I pointed out that you do do that.
You invent new definitions, and change meaning of scripture with your new definition.

So, there is no "truth" in the TruthSmack that Poly is doing, and she has to yell, "You are a liar!" because her words aren't strong enough on their own.

 

[Clete]

That's like saying, "I'm a Christian." And when I say Christian, it's a figure of speech to say I believe in an unnamed "God-like" force, and am Buddhist.

Hate is never a figure of speech for love.

You forgot about Luke 14:26 didn't you?

Do you think that Jesus taught that we should really hate our family?

Yes or no, please.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[beanieboy]

You forgot about Luke 14:26 didn't you?

Do you think that Jesus taught that we should really hate our family?

Yes or no, please.

Resting in Him,
Clete

I don't know.
If that was not what he meant, then it was mistranslated.

 

[Poly]

Only I pointed out that you do do that.
You invent new definitions, and change meaning of scripture with your new definition.

So, there is no "truth" in the TruthSmack that Poly is doing, and she has to yell, "You are a liar!" because her words aren't strong enough on their own.

Beanie, does Clete base what he believes on the fact that somebody said it was true or the bible?

 

[Clete]

I don't know.
If that was not what he meant, then it was mistranslated.

:doh: Give me a break, will ya?
Can't you be intellectually honest for even one minute?
Translated wrong? You have to be kidding me. It's a figure of speech, a common one at that. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to see it, just the slightest bit of honesty.


Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[beanieboy]

Beanie, does Clete base what he believes on the fact that somebody said it was true or the bible?

That's a good question.
I would say that the answer is based on Enyart's belief of what the bible says.
Then, one can say, "I hate, because the bible says..." but really means, the bible says, according to Enyart.

If one is to love their enemies, and says that they love and hate their enemy, I have to question it, using Websters definitions.

But the whole issue of "hate" according to the bible is a really good start of a thread, don't you think?

 

[beanieboy]

:doh: Give me a break, will ya?
Can't you be intellectually honest for even one minute?
Translated wrong? You have to be kidding me. It's a figure of speech, a common one at that. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to see it, just the slightest bit of honesty.


Resting in Him,
Clete

But, it makes sense to say, A man cannot serve two masters. He will love one, and love the other less.

That makes sense.

So, why not translate it as such?

Otherwise, in Luke 14:26, one may justifying hating (literally) his children.

But you raise a good question. Why does it use the word hate in that passage, with the understanding of how most people use the word hate?

I have never used the word "hate" to mean "love less," and so the verse is very curious.

Mathew 10 says:
35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.


"He that loveth his father more than me..." That's very clear.

 

[Clete]

You're a lost cause Bean. I give up. :nono:

 

[Poly]

That's a good question.
I would say that the answer is based on Enyart's belief of what the bible says.

You're a liar, beanie. When have you known Clete to say he believes something because Enyart says it's true? Here's scripture that Clete used just today to back up some of his beliefs.

You forgot about Luke 14:26 didn't you?

Yes and so does God.

Psalm 5:5

The boastful shall not stand in Your sight; You hate all workers of iniquity.
​

Love and hate are not mutually exclusive.

Because fool took your first choice of screen names?

Proverbs 1:20Wisdom calls aloud outside;

She raises her voice in the open squares.
21She cries out in the chief concourses,
At the openings of the gates in the city
She speaks her words:
22"How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity?
For scorners delight in their scorning,
And fools hate knowledge.
23Turn at my rebuke;
Surely I will pour out my spirit on you;
I will make my words known to you.
24Because I have called and you refused,
I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded,
25Because you disdained all my counsel,
And would have none of my rebuke,
26I also will laugh at your calamity;
I will mock when your terror comes,
27When your terror comes like a storm,
And your destruction comes like a whirlwind,
When distress and anguish come upon you.
28"Then they will call on me, but I will not answer;
They will seek me diligently, but they will not find me.
29Because they hated knowledge
And did not choose the fear of the LORD,
30They would have none of my counsel
And despised my every rebuke.
31Therefore they shall eat the fruit of their own way,
And be filled to the full with their own fancies.
32For the turning away of the simple will slay them,
And the complacency of fools will destroy them;
33But whoever listens to me will dwell safely,
And will be secure, without fear of evil."
​

This is the key point, God is Spirit and when He breathed life into Adam's notrils He was doing something spiritual.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,...
​

The dust of the ground is not alive, a lump of dirt is not alive in the sense that it can think and reproduce and interact with it's environment and other living things and it most certainly does not have a soul. Something more than the physical is necessary for Adams body to become Adam the man

...and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Clete never even brings up Enyart's name in the posts he submits around here. The only reason he's bringing him up in this thread is because it's about him. Anybody with half a brain can see that Clete's passionate about what he believes and that he's not dumb enough to go into it blindly.

 

[beanieboy]

You're a lost cause Bean. I give up. :nono:

I believe that after looking up the verse, and referring to matthew, that I agreed with you.

Unfortunately, I think that it allows for misinterpretation, ie, I can hate my wife, because Jesus tells me so in Luke 14:26.

 

[beanieboy]

You're a liar, beanie. When have you known Clete to say he believes something because Enyart says it's true? Here's scripture that Clete used just today to back up some of his beliefs.

Clete never even brings up Enyart's name in the posts he submits around here. The only reason he's bringing him up in this thread is because it's about him. Anybody with half a brain can see that Clete's passionate about what he believes and that he's not dumb enough to go into it blindly.

It is my hope that he isn't, because one should follow Jesus, and not a preacher, right?

But one can make the bible say that you should hate people, (ie, detest, loathe), if you want it to. It's easy to twist the bible, as Satan did to Jesus. One should simply question how another is interpretting the bible, shouldn't they?

 

[Clete]

I believe that after looking up the verse, and referring to matthew, that I agreed with you.

:noway:

Unfortunately, I think that it allows for misinterpretation, ie, I can hate my wife, because Jesus tells me so in Luke 14:26.

Regardless of what the Bible says, it can be misinterpreted. Like you said, people can make the Bible say anything they want. That is, if they are knuckleheads or just outright dishonest. The point is that for anyone with a brain, it's obvious that Jesus does not want us to hate our families and as for those who don't have a brain big enough to figure that out, who cares what they say, they're stupid, right? So just ignore them.

Now that we are in agreement on the fact that hate can be used as a figure of speech that doesn't mean what the dictionary says that 'hate' means. Let's move on to the idea that love and hate (i.e. despise, loath, etc) are not mutually exclusive. Are you at all close to understanding the points I've already made on this issue, or do I need to start over?

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[beanieboy]

:noway:


Regardless of what the Bible says, it can be misinterpreted. Like you said, people can make the Bible say anything they want. That is, if they are knuckleheads or just outright dishonest. The point is that for anyone with a brain, it's obvious that Jesus does not want us to hate our families and as for those who don't have a brain big enough to figure that out, who cares what they say, they're stupid, right? So just ignore them.

Now that we are in agreement on the fact that hate can be used as a figure of speech that doesn't mean what the dictionary says that 'hate' means. Let's move on to the idea that love and hate (i.e. despise, loath, etc) are not mutually exclusive. Are you at all close to understanding the points I've already made on this issue, or do I need to start over?

Resting in Him,
Clete

No, now what you say makes sense in the context of Matthew.

But how do you determine what is a figure of speech (when hate really means "love lesser) and when it simply means to detest and hate, as most people mean it?

Do you go by translation, cross reference, or what?

I don't mean to be obtuse, but I don't understand how hate - used as "to love lesser" is not different than love, or not mutually exclusive, nor when it is used as "despise."
How do you explain, for example, "A man cannot serve two masters, one he will love, the other he will hate."

In that context, they would be different, wouldn't they?

Are is that a separate thing altogether?

I don't quite understand how one can hate and love simulaneously. One can serve God (love God) and love their family (but less than God), but the bible also says that you cannot love God and hate your brother.

So, when is hate figurative, and when is it not?

See my confusion?