ECT In spite of Gal 2, Peter considered himself apostle to the Gentiles
- Thread starter Interplanner
- Start date
?? Surely, you are joking. It says " be ready always to give an answer," -not equivalent to "answer every man." The bible is a book of details. As such, I pay attention to details. Most do not.
Proverbs 26:4 KJV Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
21:27 KJV And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.
Mark 11:33 KJV And they answered and said unto Jesus, We cannot tell. And Jesus answering saith unto them, Neither do I tell you by what authority I do these things.
Luke 20:8 KJV And Jesus said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.
I will give you "the benefit of the doubt," that you were kidding with me, Danoh.
That was the Mayor's point-to whom he addressed it-the biblical illiterate.
My first thought was that psuedo Acts 29 that's been found. But neither it nor Acts 28 address the issue; so I figured he had to have meant that tongue in cheek.
As for the other; that's why I ended it with a :chuckle:
It too was tongue in cheek.
You're slippin, JohnW :chuckle:
Have been, since my birthday-it's called de-evolution, devolving.
God's Truth
New member
Everything you say about me, it is what you are saying about yourself...and I agree.
Meanwhile, back to the Batcave under Wayne Manor (Adam West told me)...
Another aspect of Acts 10 is the following by the Apostle of the Gentiles...
1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the LORD. 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Years later, he would add to that understanding, the following...
Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
And his ministry among the Gentiles before the eyes of unbelieving Israel was nevertheless confirmed unto Israel, through signs.
Romans 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 15:17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. 15:18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:
It is in light of said confirmation that we read in Acts 10 something that most have read right past...
Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Note it again...
Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Why?
Because God was providing a witness in Peter that Peter would later point back to as a confirmation that what Paul was doing among the Gentiles was of God.
Notice...
Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Now note what Luke reports next...
Acts 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
In short, the OP is wrong - Peter was not an Apostle of the Gentiles.
Rather, the one time event that happened in Acts 10 had merely been a means of later providing a witness on the part of an Apostle of the Circumcision: Peter, that the odd, new, unexpected but by God ministry of this equally odd, new, one Apostle too many to Israel's already established Twelve Apostles, was of God.
Again, note...
Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
Notice the confirmation of Paul's odd ministry out among the Gentiles - again; through signs...
Acts 21:18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 21:19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
Paul's words in...
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
Its' confirmation? Signs wrought by the Spirit...
Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
As for Peter?
Well, the answer is the very answer the OP denies, as the man is ever insistent on his own ideas.
Galatians 2:1 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
According to Acts 15, the first time Paul had tried to point out what's what, he made the mistake of dealing with the laity.
As a result, this time, per Gal. 2:2 he made sure to deal with their leadership, that he not waste his time once more.
Back to Galatians 2:
2:6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person: ) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles: ) 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
That is Paul's assertion in what is perhaps the first Epistle he wrote, and that is after who he wrote it to had already been brought to the Lord by him at a point earlier to his writing of Galatians.
Not to leave out also, the fact of his account of James,' Peter,' and John,'s agreement with him - that he would confine his ministry to the UNcircumcision, and they would confine theirs to the Circumcision.
It is also obviously written at a point earlier to his reminder to Peter of exactly what that "no difference between us and them" was that Peter related in Acts 15 - after Paul's having met privately with them to lay it out to them.
Paul reminded Peter of the actual sense of this "no difference" that Paul had earlier laid out to Peter - he reminded Peter of it in the following...
Galatians 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
After Paul laid it out to them, what they and Peter understood from Paul as to what happened in Acts 10 was that God had concluded Jews "sinners of the Gentiles" after all.
Paul would later lay this out that he asserts in Romans 15 he had been preaching all along - he would lay that out in Romans 1:18-3:30 (and in Romans 9-11).
A summary of which is...
Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Fact is, there is ever a great deal more than those who over rely on the writings of men (as Interplanner so obviously does), can ever fathom.
Because Scripture requires years in Scripture itself...comparing, and comparing, and comparing...verse with verse.
All an over reliance on "books" about can accomplish, is not only take time away from time in the Scripture, but result in a way of looking at things that is based on the ship wreck of one's own ideas.
A shipwreck that only great time in Scripture can hope to rescue one from.
In that, in the very moment one thinks one has an answer, up pops up all that Word dwelling richly in one (as a result of all that time in the Scripture itself) to rescue one with its "correction."
The fool book readers never see this.
Another aspect of Acts 10 is the following by the Apostle of the Gentiles...
1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the LORD. 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Years later, he would add to that understanding, the following...
Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
And his ministry among the Gentiles before the eyes of unbelieving Israel was nevertheless confirmed unto Israel, through signs.
Romans 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 15:17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. 15:18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:
It is in light of said confirmation that we read in Acts 10 something that most have read right past...
Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Note it again...
Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Why?
Because God was providing a witness in Peter that Peter would later point back to as a confirmation that what Paul was doing among the Gentiles was of God.
Notice...
Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Now note what Luke reports next...
Acts 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
In short, the OP is wrong - Peter was not an Apostle of the Gentiles.
Rather, the one time event that happened in Acts 10 had merely been a means of later providing a witness on the part of an Apostle of the Circumcision: Peter, that the odd, new, unexpected but by God ministry of this equally odd, new, one Apostle too many to Israel's already established Twelve Apostles, was of God.
Again, note...
Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
Notice the confirmation of Paul's odd ministry out among the Gentiles - again; through signs...
Acts 21:18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 21:19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
Paul's words in...
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
Its' confirmation? Signs wrought by the Spirit...
Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
As for Peter?
Well, the answer is the very answer the OP denies, as the man is ever insistent on his own ideas.
Galatians 2:1 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
According to Acts 15, the first time Paul had tried to point out what's what, he made the mistake of dealing with the laity.
As a result, this time, per Gal. 2:2 he made sure to deal with their leadership, that he not waste his time once more.
Back to Galatians 2:
2:6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person: ) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles: ) 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
That is Paul's assertion in what is perhaps the first Epistle he wrote, and that is after who he wrote it to had already been brought to the Lord by him at a point earlier to his writing of Galatians.
Not to leave out also, the fact of his account of James,' Peter,' and John,'s agreement with him - that he would confine his ministry to the UNcircumcision, and they would confine theirs to the Circumcision.
It is also obviously written at a point earlier to his reminder to Peter of exactly what that "no difference between us and them" was that Peter related in Acts 15 - after Paul's having met privately with them to lay it out to them.
Paul reminded Peter of the actual sense of this "no difference" that Paul had earlier laid out to Peter - he reminded Peter of it in the following...
Galatians 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
After Paul laid it out to them, what they and Peter understood from Paul as to what happened in Acts 10 was that God had concluded Jews "sinners of the Gentiles" after all.
Paul would later lay this out that he asserts in Romans 15 he had been preaching all along - he would lay that out in Romans 1:18-3:30 (and in Romans 9-11).
A summary of which is...
Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Fact is, there is ever a great deal more than those who over rely on the writings of men (as Interplanner so obviously does), can ever fathom.
Because Scripture requires years in Scripture itself...comparing, and comparing, and comparing...verse with verse.
All an over reliance on "books" about can accomplish, is not only take time away from time in the Scripture, but result in a way of looking at things that is based on the ship wreck of one's own ideas.
A shipwreck that only great time in Scripture can hope to rescue one from.
In that, in the very moment one thinks one has an answer, up pops up all that Word dwelling richly in one (as a result of all that time in the Scripture itself) to rescue one with its "correction."
The fool book readers never see this.
God's Truth
New member
God's Truth
New member
Are you trying to compete with John W.?
Last edited:
God's Truth
New member
I don't agree.
No surprise there :chuckle:
Interplanner
Well-known member
(Don't forget what Mt 5 says about calling people fools...)
You wrote:
'the OP was wrong; Peter was not an apostle to the Gentiles.'
But that is not what he said about himself in Acts 15. He shirked from the task, but that's Peter.
And you can shut up about relying on other books because of that. if you have an issue with another book, take it up directly.
God didn't make a conclusion in Acts 10 for you experts to come find X000 years later and see, here is the secret spot. God announced it clear back in the prophets because the Abrahamic promise was going to be fulfilled no matter how Israel failed.
No need for 5 pages of confusion from you, sorry.
Interplanner
Well-known member
In keeping with your rule against reading other books, I won't be reading any more yours.
You mean my "rule" of not over relying on books.
But, you want your cake, and you want to eat it to.
So distort my words you must.
Liar.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
1 Cor 15:36 (KJV)
God's Truth
New member
You are no apostle Paul.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
God's Truth
New member
You and your ilk call people fools all the time. None of you are qualified to do that. None of you are an apostle Paul.