If you don't believe in the trinity...

[Apple7]

Yeshua never says that the Son of man comes in flaming fire but rather clearly, and multiple times, he says the Son of man comes with the clouds of the heavens and with his holy angels. Just because you presume to have Messiah Yeshua does not mean you have yet come to know his and our Father. The Kohen Gadol makes the cloud in the Most Holy place by the burning of incense, (with the prayers of the holy ones) so that the Father may appear over the mercy seat between the Krubim.

Observe your error...


Exodus 3.1 - 6

And Moses was feeding the flock of his father-in-law Jethro, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock behind the wilderness and came to the mountain of The Gods, to Horeb. And Malek Yahweh appeared to him in a flame of fire from the middle of a thorn bush. And he looked, and behold, the thorn bush was burning with fire, and the thorn bush was not burned up! And Moses said, I will turn aside now and see this great sight, why the thorn bush is not burned up. And Yahweh saw that he turned aside to see, and Elohim called to him from the midst of the thorn bush, and said, Moses! Moses! And he said, Behold me. And He said, Do not come near here. Pull off your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground. And He said, I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face, for he feared to look upon The Gods.


These verses tell us plainly that Moses both saw and spoke with Malek Yahweh (i.e. God the Son) in the midst of the fire.

Observe that the Triune God occupies the Mount (Moses came to the mountain of all The Gods ‘Ha- Elohim’), as the terms Yahweh, Elohim, Malek Yahweh & Ha- Elohim (literally all The Gods!) are used interchangeably.

Who occupied the burning bush?

• Malek Yahweh
• Yahweh
• Elohim
• The Gods (Ha Elohim)





That Malek Yahweh is actually Yahweh, and that Moses spoke to Malek Yahweh, is proven in these verses, as thus…



Deut 4.15 - 19

Therefore you shall carefully watch over your souls, for you have not seen any likeness in the day Yahweh spoke to you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire, that you not deal corruptly, and make for yourselves a graven image, a likeness of any figure, the form of a male or female, the form of any animal in the earth; the form of any winged bird that flies in the heavens; the form of any creeping thing on the ground; the form of any fish in the waters under the earth; and that you not lift up your eyes towards the heavens and shall see the sun, and the heavens, and you be drawn away and worship them, and serve them; which Yahweh Elohim has allotted to all the peoples under all the heavens.

 

[Apple7]

PS ~ Malak YHWH is like saying Mashiah YHWH: it does not mean the Malak is himself YHWH and neither does the other phrase mean Mashiah is YHWH. Mashiah YHWH is a well known title for the Kohen Gadol and also for anointed kings, ("sons of God"). Malak YHWH simply means an Angel-Messenger of YHWH. YHWH speaks through His Messengers as He says of the Malak in Exodus 23:20-21, ("My Name is in him").

No.

‘The Malek with His name in Him’ is referred to as God both before (Exo 23.19) and after (Exo 23.25) these verses – proving that this is not an angel, but God in the flesh.

 

[Apple7]

I would give you a pos rep for this post, except for this incorrect statement. I've been round with you on this before, so I doubt this will change anything, but the messenger of YHWH is not YHWH. Jesus was never called the messenger of YHWH - not once. He is called the messenger of the covenant once or twice. Jesus is YHWH with the Father. He came as the revelation of the Father to us - not His messenger. Malek YHWH is the angel of YHWH as confirmed by Acts 7:35.

Oh really...?

Here we have scriptural confirmation that the One God who spoke to Moses from the burning bush is actually The Messenger of The Lord, The Second Person of The Trinity, The Son…


Mark 12.26

But concerning the dead, that they are raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, as God spoke to him at the Bush, saying, "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob"?

Mark 12 informs the reader that God spoke to Moses from the burning bush.




Acts 7.30 - 39

And forty years being fulfilled to him, The Messenger of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire in a bush in the wilderness of Mount Sinai. And seeing, Moses marveled at the sight. And he coming up to look, a voice of the Lord came to him: "I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." Ex. 3:6, 15 But becoming trembly, Moses did not dare to look. And the Lord said to him, "Loosen the sandal from your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground. I surely saw the affliction of My people in Egypt, and I have heard their groan, and I came down to pluck them out. And now, come, I will send you to" Egypt. Ex. 3:5, 7, 8a, 10a This Moses, whom they denied, saying, Who appointed you a ruler and a judge, this one God has sent as ruler and redeemer by the hand of the Messenger who appeared to him in the Bush. This one led them out, having worked wonders and miraculous signs in the land of Egypt and in the Red Sea, and forty years in the wilderness. This is the Moses who said to the sons of Israel, " The Lord your God will raise up a Prophet to you" "from your brothers, One like me." You shall hear Him. Deut. 18:15 This is the one who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the Messenger who spoke to him in Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, who received living Words to give to us, to whom our fathers did not desire to be subject, but thrust him away, and turned their hearts back to Egypt,


Acts 7 informs the reader that The Messenger of The Lord appeared and spoke to Moses from the burning bush.

Thus…The Messenger of The Lord is God.

 

[RevTestament]

Oh really...?

Here we have scriptural confirmation that the One God who spoke to Moses from the burning bush is actually The Messenger of The Lord, The Second Person of The Trinity, The Son…


Mark 12.26

But concerning the dead, that they are raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, as God spoke to him at the Bush, saying, "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob"?

Mark 12 informs the reader that God spoke to Moses from the burning bush.




Acts 7.30 - 39

And forty years being fulfilled to him, The Messenger of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire in a bush in the wilderness of Mount Sinai. And seeing, Moses marveled at the sight. And he coming up to look, a voice of the Lord came to him: "I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." Ex. 3:6, 15 But becoming trembly, Moses did not dare to look. And the Lord said to him, "Loosen the sandal from your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground. I surely saw the affliction of My people in Egypt, and I have heard their groan, and I came down to pluck them out. And now, come, I will send you to" Egypt. Ex. 3:5, 7, 8a, 10a This Moses, whom they denied, saying, Who appointed you a ruler and a judge, this one God has sent as ruler and redeemer by the hand of the Messenger who appeared to him in the Bush. This one led them out, having worked wonders and miraculous signs in the land of Egypt and in the Red Sea, and forty years in the wilderness. This is the Moses who said to the sons of Israel, " The Lord your God will raise up a Prophet to you" "from your brothers, One like me." You shall hear Him. Deut. 18:15 This is the one who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the Messenger who spoke to him in Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, who received living Words to give to us, to whom our fathers did not desire to be subject, but thrust him away, and turned their hearts back to Egypt,


Acts 7 informs the reader that The Messenger of The Lord appeared and spoke to Moses from the burning bush.

Thus…The Messenger of The Lord is God.

your faulty logic would make all messengers of God who come and speak His words God themselves. Yet we see this clearly is not so from scripture. Prophets like Isaiah were not the Most High, yet the people referred to what they said as the word of God, and often refer to the words of the prophets as God told us this or that. Messengers speak the word of God. In this case Acts makes it clear that a messenger of YHWH appeared in the bush, and Moses heard the words of God through the messenger. That does not make the messenger the Most High or Jesus. Since Jesus was YHWH Himself, He never appeared as the messenger of YHWH - that's a logical fallacy.

 

[RevTestament]

He taught from the Greek? I thought the Septuagint came into being in the third century. However, I could be wrong. Something to study. Thanks Nick.

It is extremely dubious that Jesus taught from the Greek as is often represented. When Jesus was teaching the scribes as a boy, He was using the temple text of the law. They did NOT use the Septuagint in the Temple. My guess is none of the scribes even owned a Septuagint. That was an Alexandrian animal written probably so the Alexandrian library could have a "readable" copy of the major Jewish works, and maybe for Alexandrian Jews themselves. Josephus makes it quite clear that the Jews in Judah did not speak Greek much, but spoke their own language which at the time was a Galilean dialect of Aramaic. They studied the law in Hebrew from the time of their youth - NOT Greek.

The claim that Jesus taught in the Greek language I believe is basically a prideful boast of the western state Church. It is made based upon the quotes of the OT in the Greek NT conforming to the Septuagint OT.

However, the Peshitta NT also quotes the Peshitta OT and doesn't conform so much to the Septuagint. And guess what? The Syrian Church and Church of the East believe that Jesus taught in Aramaic.
Further, the the Peshitta NT is almost as old as the surviving Greek manuscripts.

Basically, most of the common people of Judah just didn't really know Greek well if at all, and teaching from the Septuagint would have been a very poor choice.

 

[RevTestament]

Yes, of course, nothing of any real substance to back up any of your claims except for an obscure passage that is clearly disputable:

Zechariah 12:10 RSV
10. "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of compassion and supplication, so that, when they look on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a first-born.

To believe your version of the above passage, in the way in which you have presented it, one would necessarily have to believe that the Father was crucified at Golgotha.

Not at all. Did YHWH exist before this solar system? Where does God say this is the only habitable planet which has ever been created?

 

[daqq]

How 'bout we just let Barnabas clear it up.

*SNIP*

12 For it is concerning us that the scripture says that he says to the Son, "Let us make man after our image and likeness, and let them rule the beasts of the earth, and the birds of heaven, and the fishes of the sea." And the Lord said, when he saw our fair creation, "Increase and multiply and fill the earth"; these things were spoken to the Son.

That clears up nothing.
And sorry, but I don't accept gnostic works as scripture.

Yes, Elohim does equate to Angels in some cases, and this shows up in several places from the Psalms, one of which has already been quoted to you and others in several other threads:

Psalms 8:4-5 KJV
4. What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
5. For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, [HSN#0430 'Elohiym] and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

Psalm 8:4-5 ASV
4. What is man, that thou art mindful of him? And the son of man, that thou visitest him?
5. For thou hast made him but little lower than God, [HSN#0430 'Elohiym] And crownest him with glory and honor.

Hebrews 2:6-9 KJV
6. But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
7. Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; [GSN#0032 aggelos] thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
8. Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
9. But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels [GSN#0032 aggelos] for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Hi there 1Mind1Spirit,

RevTestament claiming your point is Gnostic, (by default for claiming that what you quoted is a Gnostic text) only reveals his ignorance of even the writings which are now considered "canon" by the majority and himself. The author of Barnabas is correct in the thinking put forth but not just because he says so, no, but rather because Barnabas is actually the fourth witness to such thinking. The first witness is king David in Psalm 8:4-6 which I quoted immediately after the exchange between yourself and RevTestament quoted herein above. If we read further in that text it is blazingly clear that the Psalm speaks of Genesis 1:26-28

Psalm 8:4-8 KJV
4. What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
5. For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
6. Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
7. All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;
8. The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.

Genesis 1:26-28 KJV
26. And God said, Let us make man [LXX ανθρωπον] in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, [Barnabas 6:12] and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27. So God created man [LXX τον ανθρωπον] in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, [Barnabas 6:12] and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. [Barnabas 6:12]

The Psalm of king David clearly implies that this "Adam" is "the Son of man", (the second from the heavens as Genesis 2:7 reveals the first Adam which was taken from the dust of the adamah-soil) and this Adam of Genesis 1:26-28 is man in the sense of yet another compound unity, even though in the Septuagint we see "τον ανθρωπον", for clearly the context denotes mankind, male and female, as likewise the author of Epistle of Barnabas employs, (τον ανθρωπον) in the Greek text of the passage you quoted. The second witness to this thinking is the author of Hebrews who quotes this passage and applies it to Yeshua, in Hebrews 2:6-9, as also quoted in my post above herein. The third witness is Paul who employs the same thinking in more than one place, (see also Ephesians 1:17-23) and expounds it according to the very same principles:

1 Corinthians 15:22-27 KJV
22. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, [Genesis 1:26-28, Psalm 8:4-8, Hebrews 2:6-9] it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

Now therefore, because of all of the above, I say this of the Barnabas passage:

Barnabas 6:12 (J. B. Lightfoot Translation)
[12] For the scripture saith concerning us, how He saith to the Son; Let us make man [τὸν ἄνθρωπον] after our image and after our likeness, and let them rule over the beasts of the earth and the fowls of the heaven and the fishes of the sea. And the Lord said when He saw the fair creation of us men; Increase and multiply and fill the earth. These words refer to the Son.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/barnabas-lightfoot.html

Barnabas 6:12 (Charles H. Hoole 1885 translation)
6:12 For the scripture saith concerning us, that he saith unto the Son, Let us make man [τὸν ἄνθρωπον] after our own image and according to our likeness; and let them rule over the beasts of the earth, and the fowls of heaven, and the fishes of the sea. And the Lord said, when he saw how excellent our form was, Increase and multiply and replenish the earth. These things he saith unto the Son.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/barnabas-hoole.html

Barnabas 6:12 (Kirsopp Lake 1912 Translation)
12 For it is concerning us that the scripture says that he says to the Son, "Let us make man [τὸν ἄνθρωπον] after our image and likeness, and let them rule the beasts of the earth, and the birds of heaven, and the fishes of the sea." And the Lord said, when he saw our fair creation, "Increase and multiply and fill the earth"; these things were spoken to the Son.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/barnabas-lake.html

Barnabas 6:12 (Roberts-Donaldson Translation)
[12] For the Scripture says concerning us, while He speaks to the Son, "Let Us make man [τὸν ἄνθρωπον] after Our image, and after Our likeness; and let them have dominion over the beasts of the earth, and the fowls of heaven, and the fishes of the sea." And the Lord said, on beholding the fair creature man, "Increase, and multiply, and replenish the earth." These things [were spoken] to the Son.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/barnabas-roberts.html

Barnabas 6:12 Greek Text
12. λέγει γὰρ ἡ γραφὴ περί ἡμῶν, ὡς λέγει τῷ υἱῷ· Ποιήσωμεν κατ’ εἰκόνα καὶ καθ’ ὁμοίσιν ἡμῶν τὸν ἄνθρωπον, καὶ ἀρχέτωσαν τῶν θηρίων τῆς γῆς καὶ τῶν πετεινῶν τοῦ οὐρανοῦ καὶ τῶν ἰχθύων τῆς θαλάσσης. καὶ εἶπεν κύριος, ἰδὼν τὸ καλὸν πλάσμα ἡμῶν· Αὐξάνεσθε καὶ πληθυνέσθε καὶ πληρώσατε τὴν γῆν. ταῦτα πρὸς τὸν υἱόν.
http://www.ccel.org/l/lake/fathers/barnabas_a.htm

"For the scripture says concerning us, in the (same) manner as it says of-to the Son, Let us make τὸν ἄνθρωπον according to our image, and according to our likeness, and let them have dominion over the beasts of the earth, and the fowls of the heavens, and the fish of the sea. And seeing our goodly formation, κύριος said, Increase, and multiply, and replenish the earth. These things refer to the Son", (and all his brethren).

So I suppose if Yeshua, and Moshe, and king David, and the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews, and Paul, and the author of the Epistle of Barnabas are all Gnostic heretics, then so too am I.

 

[daqq]

how are you guys highlighting in blue ?

When you click the highlight tool in your reply box, to highlight a text in yellow, simply change the words in the brackets from "YELLOW" to "BLUE" and the blue will work. I have noticed that GREEN also works. If you quote this post you should be able to see what I did with the green.

 

[Apple7]

your faulty logic would make all messengers of God who come and speak His words God themselves. Yet we see this clearly is not so from scripture. Prophets like Isaiah were not the Most High, yet the people referred to what they said as the word of God, and often refer to the words of the prophets as God told us this or that. Messengers speak the word of God.

Isaiah, and other OT prophets, state that The Word Of Yahweh came to them...and we already know that The Word is The Son.

It is only your worldview which makes the prophets into deity.

In this case Acts makes it clear that a messenger of YHWH appeared in the bush, and Moses heard the words of God through the messenger. That does not make the messenger the Most High or Jesus. Since Jesus was YHWH Himself, He never appeared as the messenger of YHWH - that's a logical fallacy.

Malek Yahweh speaks AS Yahweh....not FOR Yahweh.

No mere 'messenger' has the name Yahweh, unless this 'Messenger' is Yahweh.

Yahweh does not share His name with anyone.

You need to study your scriptures

 

[Nick M]

He taught from the Greek?

I wasn't there either. It is what I read. And the explanation is believable. I think it was catholic.com showing where he quoted it often.

 

[Eeset]

When you click the highlight tool in your reply box, to highlight a text in yellow, simply change the words in the brackets from "YELLOW" to "BLUE" and the blue will work. I have noticed that GREEN also works. If you quote this post you should be able to see what I did with the green.

And red?

and purple

actually it is simpler than daqq said

Above the text area you see the letter "A" just to the left of the little globe? Type your text, hold down the shift key and use the left arrow to back up and highlight your text.Then simply click on the "A" and selectyour color choice. Like orange

 

[RevTestament]

Isaiah, and other OT prophets, state that The Word Of Yahweh came to them...and we already know that The Word is The Son.

It is only your worldview which makes the prophets into deity.

Malek Yahweh speaks AS Yahweh....not FOR Yahweh.

No mere 'messenger' has the name Yahweh, unless this 'Messenger' is Yahweh.

So if His name is YHWH, how come He is His own messenger? - logical fallacy
Malek Yahweh speaks as YHWH just as basically ALL the prophets did. How come you can't seem to get that? Prophet after prophet does it.

Isaiah 51:1 Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the Lord: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged.

2 Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.

The principle was set up since the time of Moses:
Exodus 3:15 And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do.

16 And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.

Yahweh does not share His name with anyone.

You need to study your scriptures

Look in the mirror when you say that:

Jeremiah 33:16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, YHWH our righteousness.

Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

So if His name is YHWH, how come He is His own messenger? - logical fallacy
Malek Yahweh speaks as YHWH just as basically ALL the prophets did. How come you can't seem to get that? Prophet after prophet does it.

He's in derision. :sigh:

 

[daqq]

And red?

and purple

actually it is simpler than daqq said

Above the text area you see the letter "A" just to the left of the little globe? Type your text, hold down the shift key and use the left arrow to back up and highlight your text.Then simply click on the "A" and selectyour color choice. Like orange

Not! ~ Sorry, couldn't resist! :shut: :crackup:

 

[Apple7]

So if His name is YHWH, how come He is His own messenger? - logical fallacy

Each is the One God; each IS not the other.

Pure logic.

Malek Yahweh speaks as YHWH just as basically ALL the prophets did. How come you can't seem to get that? Prophet after prophet does it.

No.

None of the prophets spoke AS Yahweh.

Further, how many of the prophets had an animal sacrifice prepared for them - which was Only reserved for Yahweh?

That's right...

And the woman came and spoke to her husband, saying, A Man of The Gods has come to me, and He was seen as the appearance of the Malek of The Gods, very terrifying. And I did not ask Him where He was from, and He did not tell me His name. And He said to me, Behold, you are pregnant and will bear a son. And now do not drink wine or fermented drink, and do not eat any unclean thing, for the boy shall be a Nazarite to God from the womb, until the day of his death. Then Manoah prayed to Yahweh, and said, O my Lord, the Man of The Gods whom You sent, please let Him come again to us and direct us what we shall do to the boy being born. And The Gods listened to the voice of Manoah, and the Malek of The Gods came again to the woman. And she was sitting in a field; and her husband Manoah was not with her. And the woman hurried and ran, and told her husband, and said to him, Behold, He has appeared to me, The Man who came to me that day. And Manoah rose up and went after his wife, and came to The Man. And he said to Him, Are You The Man who spoke to the woman? And He said, I am. And Manoah said, Then let Your words come about. What shall be the way of the boy, and his undertaking? And Malek Yahweh said to Manoah, Let her take heed of all that I said to the woman; she shall not eat of anything that came forth from the grapevine; and she shall not drink wine or fermented drink; and she shall not eat any unclean thing. She shall be careful of all that I commanded her. And Manoah said to Malek Yahweh, Please let us keep You, and prepare before You a kid of the goats. And Malek Yahweh said to Manoah, If you keep Me, I will not eat of your bread. And if you prepare a burnt offering, you shall offer it to Yahweh. For Manoah did not know that He was Malek Yahweh. And Manoah said to the Malek Yahweh, What is Your name? When Your words come about, then we shall honor You. And the Malek Yahweh said to him, Why do you ask this about My name? Yea, it is Wonderful. And Manoah took the kid of the goats, and the food offering, and offered on the rock to Yahweh. And He did wonderfully, and Manoah and his wife were watching. And it happened as the flame from off the altar was going up to the heavens, that Malek Yahweh went up in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife were watching. And they fell on their faces to the ground. And Malek Yahweh did not appear any more to Manoah, or to his wife. Then Manoah knew that He was Malek Yahweh. And Manoah said to his wife, Dying we shall die, because we have seen God. And his wife said to him, If Yahweh desired to put us to death, He would not have received a burnt offering and a food offering from our hands, nor made us see all these things; nor would He now have caused us to hear things like these. (Judges 13. 6 – 23)



Plain as day from Judges Chapter 13, we can see that Malek HaElohim is the very same as Malek Yahweh.

The Messenger of The Gods is the Messenger of Yahweh.

Further, Malek Yahweh is described as being a Man.

Observe that Manoah and his wife offer-up a food sacrifice to Malek Yahweh – with the stipulation from Malek Yahweh that it not be a bread offering, as only a burnt flesh offering will suffice, and it has to be made to Yahweh.

It is at this point that we realize that Manoah did not know that he was speaking with Malek Yahweh. Malek Yahweh clarifies to Manoah that any sacrifice made to Him, would need to be made in the name of Yahweh.

Malek Yahweh is described as being seen rising in the flame of the sacrificial altar. It is at this point that Manoah and his wife understood that by seeing Malek Yahweh, that they had seen Yahweh in the flesh by the statement, 'Dying we shall die, because we have seen God.'

 

[Apple7]

Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.

Could you have selected a more damaging verse for your position?

First of all, you are still slavishly clinging to the inferior KJV, Textus Receptus (just like your ‘prophet’ Joseph Smith), of which, attempts to reduce the true impact of The Trinity.

The Majority Text reads as thus…

Rev 14.1 And I saw, and behold, the Lamb standing on the Mount Zion! And with Him a hundred forty four thousand, having His name, and the name of His Father, written on their foreheads.


How this destroys your unitarian position…



His Name will be on their Foreheads

• John declares that he sees the 144,000 sealed, residing with The Lamb (i.e. Jesus Christ), on Mount Zion (Rev 14.1)
• These are the ones that have Jesus’ singular name and His Father’s singular name written on their foreheads
• Thus, both the Father and the Son are demonstrated have their singular namesake written on the redeemed people, and being in direct possession of the people, via the usage of the genitive singular ‘autou’
• Just as the singular name of The Lamb and the singular name of the Father are written on the foreheads of the Elect, as stated in Revelation 14.1, we are told that this is ‘His name’, as Jesus Christ and the Father are one God
• The 144,000 are in the direct presence of God and will see His face, and they will worship Him
• Observe that Revelation declares three separate times that Jesus’ name will be upon His believers, the 144,000 sealed. The First time that this is mentioned, Jesus declares, in the first person singular, that only He writes the name on His Elect. (Rev 3.12 – 13)
• Thus, three separate times Revelation declares that Jesus’ name will be upon His Elect, with each of the Elect having three names written upon them: Theos, Jesus, & The New Jerusalem

 

[oatmeal]

Then you can not worship Jesus.

What do you mean by the trinity?

Can you define the concept of the trinity?

Would you care to show, from scripture, where it states that I must believe in the trinity?

Would you care to show where God uses the word "trinity" to define HIMSELF?

Or for that matter where God uses the terms "triune, three in one, three Gods in one, God the Son, dual nature, hypostatic union, mother of God, co-equal, co-eternal, of one substance with the Father......"?

Since scripture does not speak of such things, I am compelled to ask, what is your basis for your religious beliefs, it most certainly is not scripture for scripture does not use those terms

 

[Apple7]

Would you care to show where God uses the word "trinity" to define HIMSELF?

Its juxtaposed to the word 'monad'....

 

[freelight]

Truth beyond definitions,...yet the infinite includes all definitions......

Truth beyond definitions,...yet the infinite includes all definitions......

Its juxtaposed to the word 'monad'....

But such terms become 'petty' more or less, since the 'oneness' of 'God' is already established in scripture, and the term 'monad' doesn't need to be in the text for that to be so. Of course you will argue the same for the 'Trinity', so looks like two tugboats floating in the same pond. The same ultimate divine REALITY ever exists, timelessly so, however you describe or attempt to define or divide the one essence into persons or personalities.

'God' is still always the universal, eternal, infinite Spirit-presence, indivisible as well as manifesting in innumerable ways, forms and personalities. 'God' is All There IS.....and more. All springs from and is included in the Infinite ONE.




pj

 

[Apple7]

But such terms become 'petty' more or less, since the 'oneness' of 'God' is already established in scripture, and the term 'monad' doesn't need to be in the text for that to be so. Of course you will argue the same for the 'Trinity', so looks like two tugboats floating in the same pond. The same ultimate divine REALITY ever exists, timelessly so, however you describe or attempt to define or divide the one essence into persons or personalities.

The Trinity is an epithet representing the Creator as revealed in the entirety of scripture.

No scripture thwarts it - as it is already ALL scripture.