If you don't believe in the trinity...

[RevTestament]

The Son of God did not exist nor spoke for God at the time of Job or Isa.... SO... How so? :readthis:

Your confused...
oly::sherlock:
Paul

Proverbs 8: 14 Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.

15 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.

16 By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.

17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

18 Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.

19 My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.

20 I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:

21 That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.

22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.

33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.

34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.

35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the Lord.

36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Also: Matt 22:
41 ¶While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,

42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.

43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

 

[popsthebuilder]

[emoji14]oly::sherlock:

Your babbling like an idiot on the streets of NewYork City... I have no idea what you are trying to say.... How does the Hebraic form of speech called "the plural of majesty."

Have anything what so ever to do with... your comment of sheol, or hell, or baal or satan!

Are you a simple minded Christian that lashes out against the truth with simple minded comments about Satan? If you can't debate that's cool... BUT just don't call on Satan... to protect you in a post you cant even begin to defend! Are You really this spirituality weak? :think:

Study Harder!!!
[emoji14]oly::sherlock:
Paul

You seem to mis understand. If I called on anything negative it WAS NOT for help. It was simply to call it like it is in that is is a squirmy, manipulative, deceiving, powerless void.

Thanks you.

If you didn't know somehow;

All praise is to God.

 

[daqq]

Well that is not the case as that is not "oneness" doctrine as that term is currently used. I think basically all trinitarians accept that Christ is YHWH. It is the unitarians that seem to have trouble with it, since that is too close to calling Christ God for their stubborn natures.

Since they will not believe Christ can be God, they cannot receive that He will be their God, and they His sons and daughters. So in this sense trinitarians are closer to the truth.


If he was mortally wounded Daqq, a "fit man" would not lead him off into the wilderness. Did Jesus have all the sins of men laid on Him? Did that mortally wound Him or did men mortally wound Him? I didn't realize that Jews had a tradition that the goat is wicked and throw him off a cliff. Does that come from the Talmud? I don't know much about Jewish tradition. But this is just another case of men inserting their ideas into the scriptures just as the Christians did.

Being live does indicate spiritual things my friend. How do you not get that? The goat is specified as being live. That is reflective of YHWH or "being" or "breathing" or having life - being made alive in the Word. How can people not see that?

Wow, that is quite a different conception of the scapegoat. Who does tradition say the "fit man" is? If it is the priest, why not just say the priest?

Well from the scripture it seems to say that responsibility for the sins of the people get past down to the priest from his father, who bears them in his stead. That this is temporary is born out in scriptures like
Isaiah 22: 20 ¶And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:
21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
23 And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father’s house.
24 And they shall hang upon him all the glory of his father’s house, the offspring and the issue, all vessels of small quantity, from the vessels of cups, even to all the vessels of flagons.
25 In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, shall the nail that is fastened
in the sure place be removed, and be cut down, and fall; and the burden that was upon it shall be cut off: for the Lord hath spoken it.
Which is why the goat is LIVE.

That is what I was afraid you were saying but did not want assume. In all three instances the "live" goat is chay, which is simply raw life, (even of plants). If "living" was intended as you are trying to force into the passage then we would probably read chayiym, as in mayim chayiym, (running water which is thus "living water"). How can you not see that one goat is slain and his blood is brought into the sanctuary while the other goat is left alive? How else is it supposed to be said? It is neither stating nor implying that the goat is somehow an extraordinary "living goat" over and above any other goat that has raw-chay-life. This is how cooky doctrines get concocted. You are implying somehow that the goat is going to live forever simply because the Scripture says "live goat", (and despite the fact that the goat has all the sins of the people imputed to its theologically mortally wounded head). Yet even if you were arguing your point from a better perspective you still only enhance my point because that particular typological shaggy sa`iyr he-goat satyr fawn devil goes into everlasting fire.

Leviticus 16:10
10. But the goat [HSN#8163 sa`iyr] on which the lot fell for Azazel shall be presented alive [chay] before the Lord to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness to Azazel.

Original Strong's Ref. #8163
Romanized sa`iyr
Pronounced saw-eer'
or sa`ir {saw-eer'}; from HSN8175; shaggy; as noun, a he-goat; by analogy, a faun:
KJV--devil, goat, hairy, kid, rough, satyr.

Leviticus 17:7 KJV
7. And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, [HSN#8163 sa`iyr] after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them throughout their generations.

Genesis 27:11 KJV
11. And Jacob said to Rebekah his mother, Behold, Esau my brother is a hairy [HSN#8163 sa`iyr] man, and I am a smooth man:

Isaiah 34:14-16 KJV
14. The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr [HSN#8163 sa`iyr] shall cry to his fellow; the screech owl also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest.
15. There shall the great owl make her nest, and lay, and hatch, and gather under her shadow: there shall the vultures also be gathered, every one with her mate.
16. Seek ye out of the book of the Lord, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.

Daniel 8:5 KJV
5. And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: [prince of the power of the air - Ephesians 2:2] and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.

Daniel 8:21
21. And the rough goat [ha-tsapiyr ha-sa`iyr - 6842 + 8163] is the king of Yavan: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

And of course the final little horn king is the fierce `Az paniym countenance.
Check in the Book and see: no one of these shall lack his mate, matey. :crackup:

 

[popsthebuilder]

Still waiting for you to show us 'majestic plural' in the scriptures...

"I Am"
or
"Yahweh"
in full are a reference to Creator/ and creation.

The fact that Jesus is now One with God in being the Creator is related to plural in that existence totally in the direction of God is the coming of Crist and definitely pertains to many( as in 144000) individuals. This also is related to the realization that the second coming of Crist is to be through a Unity, or 1 with God through Crist. All these things are through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Our realization is the retribution for the sacrifice of God, for us.

Thank you.

All praise is God's.

 

[keypurr]

Proverbs 8: 14 Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.

15 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.

16 By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.

17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

18 Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.

19 My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.

20 I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:

21 That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.

22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.

33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.

34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.

35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the Lord.

36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Also: Matt 22:
41 ¶While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,

42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.

43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

Proof that the spiritual son of God, Christ, did indeed exist before the world was made. Good post Rev.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Fine... Hebrew scripture reads... Joseph wept to see his brothers, we read that Joseph "washed his faces" (plural). Even though I showed you the meaning was singular... I now see You missed the point twice!

Let's pick another singular word that has 'majestic plural' in the meaning! Pay close attention... as per our past post you may easily get confused!

The word elohim is used various ways in Scripture. It is not only used to describe the Almighty, but also individual pagan gods and even mighty human beings. Elohim may be translated as God, god, angels, judges, or even a human being who stands as God's representative or agent. For example, the sons of Heth address Abraham as "a mighty prince," the word for "mighty" being elohim (Genesis 23:6). Some translations have Abraham here being called "Prince of God." Take another instance. In Exodus 4, the Lord tells Moses that he "shall be as God" (elohim) to his brother Aaron. Moses will have God's words in his mouth, and will stand as God's representative before Aaron.

Here is a case where an individual human is called elohim. Again in Exodus 7:1, the Lord says to Moses, "See, I make you God [elohim] to Pharaoh." No one dares to suggest that there is a plurality of persons within Moses because he is called elohim, that is, God's representative. The pagan god Dagon is also called elohim in the Hebrew Bible. The Philistines lamented that the God of Israel was harshly treating "Dagon our God [elohim]" (1 Sam. 5:7). Dagon was a single pagan deity. The same holds true for the single pagan god called Chemosh: “Do you not possess what Chemosh your god [elohim] gives you to possess?" (Jud. 11:24). The same for the single deity called Baal


:doh:
I went and confused you yet... again!
[emoji14]oly::sherlock:
Paul

This is proof of the dualistic nature of being. And the fact that we must constantly praise God and creation in all that we say and do in order not to deviate from God's( the Creators) righteous path.

Thank you.

All praise is to the one God, the Creator through creation and Christ.

 

[Apple7]

Fine... Hebrew scripture reads... Joseph wept to see his brothers, we read that Joseph "washed his faces" (plural). Even though I showed you the meaning was singular... I now see You missed the point twice!

Let's pick another singular word that has 'majestic plural' in the meaning! Pay close attention... as per our past post you may easily get confused!

Still waiting for you to show us where 'majestic plural' occurs in scripture.

What is taking you so long...?

The word elohim is used various ways in Scripture. It is not only used to describe the Almighty, but also individual pagan gods and even mighty human beings. Elohim may be translated as God, god, angels, judges, or even a human being who stands as God's representative or agent. For example, the sons of Heth address Abraham as "a mighty prince," the word for "mighty" being elohim (Genesis 23:6). Some translations have Abraham here being called "Prince of God." Take another instance. In Exodus 4, the Lord tells Moses that he "shall be as God" (elohim) to his brother Aaron. Moses will have God's words in his mouth, and will stand as God's representative before Aaron.

Here is a case where an individual human is called elohim. Again in Exodus 7:1, the Lord says to Moses, "See, I make you God [elohim] to Pharaoh." No one dares to suggest that there is a plurality of persons within Moses because he is called elohim, that is, God's representative. The pagan god Dagon is also called elohim in the Hebrew Bible. The Philistines lamented that the God of Israel was harshly treating "Dagon our God [elohim]" (1 Sam. 5:7). Dagon was a single pagan deity. The same holds true for the single pagan god called Chemosh: “Do you not possess what Chemosh your god [elohim] gives you to possess?" (Jud. 11:24). The same for the single deity called Baal

The 'elohim argument' is an old, worn out invalid polemic.

Show us where Moses was called Yahweh!

Owned again...

 

[popsthebuilder]

Proverbs 8: 14 Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.

15 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.

16 By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.

17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

18 Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.

19 My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.

20 I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:

21 That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.

22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.

33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.

34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.

35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the Lord.

36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Also: Matt 22:
41 ¶While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,

42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.

43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

Yes, Jesus of Nazareth was preordained from before the beginning as we know it.

The second coming of Christ too, was preordained. As is our inevitable destruction.

The interesting part lie in our gift of free will, and with it the infinite possibility of potential for change for the sake of existence under God.

Through all your quotes Jesus accepts and declares his sublimation and direction under God, and it is obvious in that he is his Creation even though he and all is predestined.

Trinity =

1 God/ Father/ Creator

The son/ existence/ creation/ man

The Holy Spirit/ Christ/ Crist/ without sin whatsoever/ purity of the flesh under God/ giving selflessly/ disregard for singular physical self in full favor and submission to the cause of God for the sake of existence.

Thank you.

Praise is through Christ under God.

 

[Apple7]

"I Am"
or
"Yahweh"
in full are a reference to Creator/ and creation.

The fact that Jesus is now One with God in being the Creator is related to plural in that existence totally in the direction of God is the coming of Crist and definitely pertains to many( as in 144000) individuals. This also is related to the realization that the second coming of Crist is to be through a Unity, or 1 with God through Crist. All these things are through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Our realization is the retribution for the sacrifice of God, for us.

Thank you.

All praise is God's.

Why would you want to worship the creation...?

 

[popsthebuilder]

Why would you want to worship the creation...?

It is the work of God and subsidiary to him. It is a means of direction for from him that also leads back to him. As stated all praise is to the One God, through Christ which is God's creation too.
Thanks.

 

[RevTestament]

That is what I was afraid you were saying but did not want assume. In all three instances the "live" goat is chay, which is simply raw life, (even of plants). If "living" was intended as you are trying to force into the passage then we would probably read chayiym, as in mayim chayiym, (running water which is thus "living water"). How can you not see that one goat is slain and his blood is brought into the sanctuary while the other goat is left alive? How else is it supposed to be said? It is neither stating nor implying that the goat is somehow an extraordinary "living goat" over and above any other goat that has raw-chay-life. This is how cooky doctrines get concocted. You are implying somehow that the goat is going to live forever simply because the Scripture says "live goat", (and despite the fact that the goat has all the sins of the people imputed to its theologically mortally wounded head). Yet even if you were arguing your point from a better perspective you still only enhance my point because that particular typological shaggy sa`iyr he-goat satyr fawn devil goes into everlasting fire.

Leviticus 16:10
10. But the goat [HSN#8163 sa`iyr] on which the lot fell for Azazel shall be presented alive [chay] before the Lord to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness to Azazel.

Original Strong's Ref. #8163
Romanized sa`iyr
Pronounced saw-eer'
or sa`ir {saw-eer'}; from HSN8175; shaggy; as noun, a he-goat; by analogy, a faun:
KJV--devil, goat, hairy, kid, rough, satyr.

Leviticus 17:7 KJV
7. And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, [HSN#8163 sa`iyr] after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them throughout their generations.

Genesis 27:11 KJV
11. And Jacob said to Rebekah his mother, Behold, Esau my brother is a hairy [HSN#8163 sa`iyr] man, and I am a smooth man:

Isaiah 34:14-16 KJV
14. The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr [HSN#8163 sa`iyr] shall cry to his fellow; the screech owl also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest.
15. There shall the great owl make her nest, and lay, and hatch, and gather under her shadow: there shall the vultures also be gathered, every one with her mate.
16. Seek ye out of the book of the Lord, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.

Daniel 8:5 KJV
5. And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: [prince of the power of the air - Ephesians 2:2] and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.

Daniel 8:21
21. And the rough goat [ha-tsapiyr ha-sa`iyr - 6842 + 8163] is the king of Yavan: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

And of course the final little horn king is the fierce `Az paniym countenance.
Check in the Book and see: no one of these shall lack his mate, matey. :crackup:

Like I said, goats are sinners. That doesn't mean they can't repent and receive life. To insinuate the priest would lay his hands upon a devil and confess all the sins of the people on him makes NO sense. You are forgetting the blood of the first GOAT makes an atonement with the bullock. The goats were equal, but the cast lot fell on the scapegoat. This kinda blows your analysis outta the water friend.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Like I said, goats are sinners. That doesn't mean they can't repent and receive life. To insinuate the priest would lay his hands upon a devil and confess all the sins of the people on him makes NO sense. You are forgetting the blood of the first GOAT makes an atonement with the bullock. The goats were equal, but the cast lot fell on the scapegoat. This kinda blows your analysis outta the water friend.

Priest who are wholly egotistical righteous through the direction of Christ under God are indeed God's chosen.

 

[oatmeal]

Fine... Hebrew scripture reads... Joseph wept to see his brothers, we read that Joseph "washed his faces" (plural). Even though I showed you the meaning was singular... I now see You missed the point twice!

Let's pick another singular word that has 'majestic plural' in the meaning! Pay close attention... as per our past post you may easily get confused!

The word elohim is used various ways in Scripture. It is not only used to describe the Almighty, but also individual pagan gods and even mighty human beings. Elohim may be translated as God, god, angels, judges, or even a human being who stands as God's representative or agent. For example, the sons of Heth address Abraham as "a mighty prince," the word for "mighty" being elohim (Genesis 23:6). Some translations have Abraham here being called "Prince of God." Take another instance. In Exodus 4, the Lord tells Moses that he "shall be as God" (elohim) to his brother Aaron. Moses will have God's words in his mouth, and will stand as God's representative before Aaron.

Here is a case where an individual human is called elohim. Again in Exodus 7:1, the Lord says to Moses, "See, I make you God [elohim] to Pharaoh." No one dares to suggest that there is a plurality of persons within Moses because he is called elohim, that is, God's representative. The pagan god Dagon is also called elohim in the Hebrew Bible. The Philistines lamented that the God of Israel was harshly treating "Dagon our God [elohim]" (1 Sam. 5:7). Dagon was a single pagan deity. The same holds true for the single pagan god called Chemosh: “Do you not possess what Chemosh your god [elohim] gives you to possess?" (Jud. 11:24). The same for the single deity called Baal


:doh:
I went and confused you yet... again!
oly::sherlock:
Paul

Great post.

Mostly falling on deaf ears however.

They would rather keep their traditions than seek answers from scripture.

However, your work is appreciated by those who take scripture seriously

 

[oatmeal]

No.

All you did was to recycle your old, worn-out cut-n-paste.

Show us in scripture the words 'majestic plural'.

Table turning time.

Owned!

There is a difference between defining your threeology with words that do not appear in scripture,

"Trinity, triune, three in one, God the Son, dual nature, etc...." do not appear in scripture, yet you use those words to define your god,

and recognizing figures of speech.

Paul used figures and so stated that fact.

1 Corinthians 4:6

And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

God uses figures of speech to communicate truth. His spokesman spoke and wrote those down.

Note that God told Jesus what to speak and many times Jesus spoke in parables, a figure of speech.

Matthew 13:13

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

John 3:34

For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

John 7:17

If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

John 8:28

Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

John 8:38

I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

John 12:49-50

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Jesus, being a prophet, spoke what God told him to speak.

 

[RevTestament]

Priest who are wholly egotistical righteous through the direction of Christ under God are indeed God's chosen.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say pops but "egotistical" means self-centered or selfish so I don't think it is the word you are looking for since it is hard to be self-centered and "righteous."

 

[daqq]

Like I said, goats are sinners. That doesn't mean they can't repent and receive life. To insinuate the priest would lay his hands upon a devil and confess all the sins of the people on him makes NO sense. You are forgetting the blood of the first GOAT makes an atonement with the bullock. The goats were equal, but the cast lot fell on the scapegoat. This kinda blows your analysis outta the water friend.

Still you do not understand? Are you pulling my leg and just pretending not to understand such a simple thought process just because it does not fit your paradigm? The Priest lays his hands upon a fair twin goat and places all of YOUR devils upon its head. Sin is personified from the very beginning. Your sins are your devils and your devils have their doctrines. It is your own devils which defile the goat and mortally wound its head. For the same reason you cannot put your sins upon the head of Messiah but must supply your own twin goat, and it must be without blemish, or no deal. Therefore I said in the other thread; give up that billy goat pride of man for your Elder Brother: Kiss the Son, lest he be just a little angry and you perish from the Way, when his wrath is kindled just a little. Or I suppose you can keep your twin goat Esau old man nature and run with him, (into the desert and over the cliffhanger edge of a rocky ravine). But then again I do not know of anyone else that has not also learned such things the hard way, (including myself). :crackup:

:sheep:

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

But then again I do not know of anyone else that has not also learned such things the hard way, (including myself). :crackup:

:sheep:

Even so, come Lord.

 

[daqq]

Even so, come Lord.

Yes and that is why in the middle of a two-chapter dissertation concerning atonement the author of Hebrews makes it perfectly clear that Messiah shall appear the second time WITHOUT SIN:

Hebrews 9:28 KJV
28. So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

For there is another, fair and alike, having two horns like a lamb but speaking as a dragon; and that one has all the sins upon his mortally wounded head. Therefore we are admonished to test the spirits. And because mainstream Christianity ignores such warnings and rushes headlong into claiming "salvation" and a new covenant for themselves, before the appointed time of the Father, there be many eating scapegoat which they found out in the desert with all their own sins upon his mortally wounded head. :crackup:

2 John 1:8-11 KJV
8. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11. For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

And in the doctrine of Yeshua the man is the house!

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Yes and that is why in the middle of a two-chapter dissertation concerning atonement the author of Hebrews makes it perfectly clear that Messiah shall appear the second time WITHOUT SIN:

Hebrews 9:28 KJV
28. So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

For there is another, fair and alike, having two horns like a lamb but speaking as a dragon; and that one has all the sins upon his mortally wounded head. Therefore we are admonished to test the spirits. And because mainstream Christianity ignores such warnings and rushes headlong into claiming "salvation" and a new covenant for themselves, before the appointed time of the Father, there be many eating scapegoat which they found out in the desert with all their own sins upon his mortally wounded head. :crackup:

2 John 1:8-11 KJV
8. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11. For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

And in the doctrine of Yeshua the man is the house!

Indeed. :first:

 

[popsthebuilder]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say pops but "egotistical" means self-centered or selfish so I don't think it is the word you are looking for since it is hard to be self-centered and "righteous."

Oh, man, wow! I am really sorry to all who have read that. That was not what I meant. I am using a phone with poor connection. Egotistical is the opposite of what I meant, honestly. I will pay closer attention, and proof read more before I send. I meant absolutely no disrespect whatsoever to you or any one else.

Please accept my most sincere of apologies.