If you don't believe in the trinity...

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daqq

Well-known member
Are you suggesting that the two goats represent the two sons of the parable?
If you are suggesting that the 1st goat represented the sacrifice of Yeshua, you are incorrect. First, goats are sinners in the scriptures, and Yeshua was without sin. Second, the first goat was presented to make a sin offering as an atonement with the bullock. It was the blood of the bullock which made an atonement for the congregation or "his house."
The first goat is representative of Peter - not Jesus, who made a sin offering with Jesus, which was not for an atonement of the house however.

No, I clearly said that it is not the Priest who supplies the twin goats, and in this case, now and forevermore, the Kohen Gadol is Yeshua the Messiah who is Kohen Gadol after the order of Melki-Tzedek. You therefore supply both goats if you are to be part of the congregation. Therefore, I said, so much for modern westernized atonement theory. Every man has an old man sin nature, an Esau man who sees all things according to the eyes and mind of the flesh and walks according to the belly like the serpent cursed from the beginning, (Esau likewise sold his birthright for a bowl of soup, for his belly, and thus he walked). "Yakob have I loved, but Esau have I hated!" So then is there unrighteousness with Elohim? Elohim forbids it. He says to Moshe, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." So then it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of Elohim that shows mercy on whom He wills. For the scripture says to Pharaoh, "Even for this same purpose have I raised you up, that I might show My power in you, and that My name might be declared throughout all the earth." Therefore He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He wills He hardens. And who can resist His will? who are we to reply against Elohim? Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, Why have you made me twain? Has not the Potter power over the clay, of the selfsame lump of clay to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor? What if Elohim, willing to show His wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: even so that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy? which He had beforehand prepared unto glory? not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? Therefore part yourself asunder, and render unto Caesar that which belongs to Caesar, and render unto Elohim that which belongs to Elohim.

"14 And he shall take of the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it with his finger upon the mercy seat eastward; and before the mercy seat shall he sprinkle of the blood with his finger seven times."
I am not sure, but I believe these 7 times represent the 7 times of Leviticus 26 in which Israel is punished ie Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and lands of the heathen. But it is possible they may represent the 7 eyes of the lamb of Revelation 5, or that is also the 7 seals. Each is opened by the lamb in one of the 7 "watchers" as you put it. However, I still do not know about all the names you list. Any sources besides the Book of Enoch? Their earthly names include Adam(Miyka'el), Noah, Abraham, David, John the Baptist (gave token of the covenant for Yeshua), etc, to this day.

Messiah is the High Priest who purges with the Seven Fingers of Elohim:

Luke 11:20-26
20. But if I with the Finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you!
21. When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
22. But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
23. He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
24. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, [Lev 16:10] seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.


The man is the house and for disciples of Yeshua there is no exception to the rule: seven fingers, seven strokes, seven pa`amiym-times, (Lev 16:14-17, 2 Kings 5:10, Dan 4:16-17, Rev 15:8).

As for the scapegoat let go in the wilderness, you may wish to note that the 2nd beast of Revelation rises up in the wilderness instead of the sea,

Two horns like a lamb but speaks like a dragon: and when the prince of the power of the air and unclean spirit of the world is cast out of the man, the unclean spirit then wanders through the dry-arid places of the desert, seeking rest, and finding none, and he then goes and associates in league with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they return, and they enter into the house which is the man, and take up residence therein, like those hasty Chaldeans which come to possess dwellings not their own. And if indeed these things be true then would that not make the shaggy goat to-for `Aza'zel, which was sent away into the desert for a latter unspecified time of atonement, the eighth and of the seven? When he returns with his seven wicked fellows and all the sins upon his mortally wounded head is he not the eighth and of the seven? (Rev 17:11)?? Indeed he is, and the son of perdition he is, and into eternal fire the old man Esau goes; each in his or her own appointed times, and none shall be alone in his appointed times, which appointed time no one knows except the Father. Then comes the rain; both the former and the latter in the first month. :)

:rain:
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
No, I clearly said that it is not the Priest who supplies the twin goats, and in this case, now and forevermore, the Kohen Gadol is Yeshua the Messiah who is Kohen Gadol after the order of Melki-Tzedek. You therefore supply both goats if you are to be part of the congregation. Therefore, I said, so much for modern westernized atonement theory. Every man has an old man sin nature, an Esau man who sees all things according to the eyes and mind of the flesh and walks according to the belly like the serpent cursed from the beginning, (Esau likewise sold his birthright for a bowl of soup, for his belly, and thus he walked). "Yakob have I loved, but Esau have I hated!" So then is there unrighteousness with Elohim? Elohim forbids it. He says to Moshe, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." So then it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of Elohim that shows mercy on whom He wills. For the scripture says to Pharaoh, "Even for this same purpose have I raised you up, that I might show My power in you, and that My name might be declared throughout all the earth." Therefore He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He wills he hardens. And who can resist His will? who are we to reply against Elohim? Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, Why have you made me twain? Has not the Potter power over the clay, of the selfsame lump of clay to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor? What if Elohim, willing to show His wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: even so that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy? which He had beforehand prepared unto glory? not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? Therefore part yourself asunder, and render unto Caesar that which belongs to Caesar, and render unto Elohim that which belongs to Elohim.



Messiah is the High Priest who purges with the Seven Fingers of Elohim:

Luke 11:20-26
20. But if I with the Finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you!
21. When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
22. But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
23. He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
24. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, [Lev 16:] seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.


The man is the house and for disciples of Yeshua there is no exception to the rule: seven fingers, seven strokes, seven pa`amiym-times, (Lev 16:14-17, 2 Kings 5:10, Dan 4:16-17, Rev 15:8).



Two horns like a lamb but speaks like a dragon: and when the prince of the power of the air and unclean spirit of the world is cast out of the man, the unclean spirit then wanders through the dry-arid places of the desert, seeking rest, and finding none, and he then goes and associates in league with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they return, and they enter into the house which is the man, and take up residence therein, like those hasty Chaldeans which come to possess dwellings not their own. And if indeed these things be true then would that not make the shaggy goat to-for `Aza'zel, which was sent away into the desert for a latter unspecified time of atonement, the eighth and of the seven? When he returns with his seven wicked fellows and all the sins upon his mortally wounded head is he not the eighth and of the seven? (Rev 17:11)?? Indeed he is, and the son of perdition he is, and into eternal fire the old man Esau goes; each in his or her own appointed times, and none shall be alone in his appointed times, which appointed time no one knows except the Father. Then comes the rain; both the former and the latter in the first month. :)

:rain:

:D Yep.

shinin' down like water
 

RevTestament

New member
Messiah is the High Priest who purges with the Seven Fingers of Elohim:

Luke 11:20-26
20. But if I with the Finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you!
21. When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
22. But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
23. He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
24. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, [Lev 16:10] seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.


The man is the house and for disciples of Yeshua there is no exception to the rule: seven fingers, seven strokes, seven pa`amiym-times, (Lev 16:14-17, 2 Kings 5:10, Dan 4:16-17, Rev 15:8).

Two horns like a lamb but speaks like a dragon: and when the prince of the power of the air and unclean spirit of the world is cast out of the man, the unclean spirit then wanders through the dry-arid places of the desert, seeking rest, and finding none, and he then goes and associates in league with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they return, and they enter into the house which is the man, and take up residence therein, like those hasty Chaldeans which come to possess dwellings not their own. And if indeed these things be true then would that not make the shaggy goat to-for `Aza'zel, which was sent away into the desert for a latter unspecified time of atonement, the eighth and of the seven? When he returns with his seven wicked fellows and all the sins upon his mortally wounded head is he not the eighth and of the seven? (Rev 17:11)?? Indeed he is, and the son of perdition he is, and into eternal fire the old man Esau goes; each in his or her own appointed times, and none shall be alone in his appointed times, which appointed time no one knows except the Father. Then comes the rain; both the former and the latter in the first month. :)
Okayyyy...... you lost me there.
I agree that the oft western view that the Messiah is represented in the scapegoat is clearly wrong. However, I cannot agree with where you are going with this. The scapegoat is not the son of perdition. The scripture doesn't say anything about the scapegoat returning with 7 wicked spirits.

20 ¶And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat:

21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:
[this scapegoat does not have a mortally wounded head. And why would the priest be confessing all the sins of the people on the son of perdition? that just doesn't fly. First, the goat was made "live." He becomes live in the Word. So this clearly cannot be the Son of Perdition.]

22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.
[This means the goat carries the burden of their sins while being live in the Word. So again, this clearly cannot be the Son of Perdition.]

Further " 32 And the priest, whom he shall anoint, and whom he shall consecrate to minister in the priest’s office in his father’s stead, shall make the atonement, and shall put on the linen clothes, even the holy garments:
33 And he shall make an atonement for the holy sanctuary, and he shall make an atonement for the tabernacle of the congregation, and for the altar, and he shall make an atonement for the priests, and for all the people of the congregation."

Remember, what Jesus said about doing everything He had seen the Father do, and doing likewise?
 

Apple7

New member
Malek Yahweh declares he is not God.

15 And Manoah said unto the angel of the LORD, I pray thee, let us detain thee, until we shall have made ready a kid * for thee.

16 And the angel of the LORD said unto Manoah, Though thou detain me, I will not eat of thy bread: and if thou wilt offer a burnt offering, thou must offer it unto the LORD. For Manoah knew not that he was an angel of the LORD.


There is absolutely no denial at Malek Yahweh is Yahweh, only affirmation.
 

daqq

Well-known member
Jesus is YHWH

It has already been shown with much Scripture that YHWH is the Father, so essentially your doctrine is not much different from what several others here are also promoting, which is pretty much what they call the "Oneness Doctrine", which even mainstream Trinitarians call heresy. Not calling you a heretic myself but simply stating what is the case. :)

Okayyyy...... you lost me there.
I agree that the oft western view that the Messiah is represented in the scapegoat is clearly wrong. However, I cannot agree with where you are going with this. The scapegoat is not the son of perdition. The scripture doesn't say anything about the scapegoat returning with 7 wicked spirits.

The goat is not Azazel but rather to/for Azazel.

20 ¶And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat:

21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:
[this scapegoat does not have a mortally wounded head. And why would the priest be confessing all the sins of the people on the son of perdition? that just doesn't fly. First, the goat was made "live." He becomes live in the Word. So this clearly cannot be the Son of Perdition.]

22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.
[This means the goat carries the burden of their sins while being live in the Word. So again, this clearly cannot be the Son of Perdition.]

Further " 32 And the priest, whom he shall anoint, and whom he shall consecrate to minister in the priest’s office in his father’s stead, shall make the atonement, and shall put on the linen clothes, even the holy garments:
33 And he shall make an atonement for the holy sanctuary, and he shall make an atonement for the tabernacle of the congregation, and for the altar, and he shall make an atonement for the priests, and for all the people of the congregation."

Remember, what Jesus said about doing everything He had seen the Father do, and doing likewise?

Do you not see what is right there in black and white and now yellow highlighting from which you quoted? The goat does indeed have a "mortally wounded head" because all the sins of the people are placed upon its head when the Priest places his hands upon the head of the goat and confesses all the sins. Also I do not understand what you mean by "the goat was made live in the word"? These things are SPIRIT, it does not concern a literal goat, it is a teaching of doctrine. The very reason that it was decided to destroy the goat, even though it is not outwardly commanded anywhere in Torah, was because of the catastrophic spiritual implications if by chance the goat was to wander back into the camp with all of the sins of the people upon its mortally wounded head, (at that point the goat is clearly deemed unclean). In tradition the goat is said to have been thrust off from a rocky cliff to its destruction, (the same imagery by the way as that found concerning Azazel in 1Enoch). Also it does not appear that you fully comprehend the office of the Priest in this function: the Priest does not "bear the sins of the people" indefinitely, but rather only temporarily, and that is so as to "bear up" the sins from off the people and then place them upon the head of the live goat to be sent away into the wilderness. Yeshua does the same thing throughout his ministry as he heals people, bearing up their sins, and especially those to whom he says they are made whole, and their sins are aphiemi-sent-away: he does not bear the sins of the people forever but rather only in a temporary fashion so as to place them upon the head of the twin old man nature to be sent away. Therefore he says, "Sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto you", for example the first unclean spirit of the world and prince of the power of the air, (which every new disciple formerly served as Paul says) coming back with seven other spirits more wicked than himself. Likewise these things are SPIRIT just as the words of Yeshua are SPIRIT and LIFE.

Once upon a kippurim there was a priest of Elohim; a man which had not yet been revealed to his own, but was indeed being used of Elohim to work good works, healings, cures, good will, and peace toward all his brethren to the glory of Elohim. One day the priest of Elohim came into his own beloved city, and they brought to him a paralytic man lying on a stretcher: and the priest of Elohim, seeing their faith, said unto the paralytic; Have courage, teknon, (young child, for he was not yet a son of the kingdom) Your sins are aphiemi-sent away. But hearing this saying there were certain of the Scribes present which said within themselves, That is blasphemy! (for only the current High Priest of the great city was vested with the power and authority from on High to send away the sins of the people, and that was only once in the year at the Great Day of Yom Kippurim Atonements). So the priest of Elohim, knowing their thoughts, said to them, Why do you think evil in your hearts? For what is easier to say, Your sins are aphiemi-sent away? or to say, Rise up and walk? But so that you may know that the Son of man has authority over the earth to aphiemi-send away sins, (then he says to the paralytic) Rise up, take up your bed, and go to your house! And the paralytic man arose, cured, and departed to the house of Elohim to give thanks. But the day wherein this occurred was Shabbat, yet he took up his bed as the Commander of the Covenant had ordered. And as he approached nigh unto the temple the elders therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the day of Shabbat: it is not lawful for you to carry your bed! But the healed man answered them, saying, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up your bed and walk. Then they began to interrogate him, and said to him, What man is it that said unto you, Take up your bed and walk? And he that was healed knew not who it was, for the priest of Elohim had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place. But afterward the priest of Elohim found the cured man in the temple, and said to him, Behold, you are become whole; sin no more, lest a more evil thing come unto you!

And after two great days it came to pass that there was certain sect of talmidim that heard these words of the High Priest of Elohim, saying, "Sin no more, lest a more evil thing come unto you!" And they besought an answer from the Most High, in His Word, as to what this more evil thing might be insomuch that they might also know the signs. And the Most High sent a messenger to show unto them things to come; and the messenger brought into remembrance the words of the High Priest, which said unto the them, If I with the Finger of Elohim do cast out daemonion, no doubt the kingdom of Elohim is come upon you! When a strong armed man guards his palace, his goods are in peace: but when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he takes from him all his armor wherein he trusted and divides his spoils. He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathers not with me scatters. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walks through dry-arid places seeking rest. And finding none, he says, I will return unto my house from whence I came out. And when he comes, he finds the house swept and put in order. Then goes he, and associates unto himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and having entered in, they dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

However, there were some of the talmidim which believed not this word, for they said unto themselves, All of my sins are aphiemi-pardoned-forgiven! But those talmidim who believed this word said unto themselves, All of my sins are aphiemi-sent away upon the mortally wounded head of my old man twin goat to-for Azazel, but if they are sent away into the dry places of the desert then they can return if I willfully continue in the sins of my old man nature! And so there came to be a division in the sect. :crackup:

:sheep:
 

Apple7

New member
Let's bake your noodle...

Let's bake your noodle...

It has already been shown with much Scripture that YHWH is the Father, so essentially your doctrine is not much different from what several others here are also promoting, which is pretty much what they call the "Oneness Doctrine", which even mainstream Trinitarians call heresy. Not calling you a heretic myself but simply stating what is the case. :)



How about Ezekiel?

We have the Son proclaimed in Ezekiel:

• The Word (Eze 1.3)
• Also called the Glory (Eze 1.28)
• The Glory has the appearance of a Man (Eze 1.26 – 28)
• Compare how the NT refers to the Son as the Glory & the Word (John 1.14; Heb 1.3)
• Ezekiel states that the Glory by the river (Eze 1.3, 28) is the same Glory as mentioned throughout the book (Eze 3.22 – 23; 10.18 – 20; 43.3)


We have the Spirit proclaimed in Ezekiel:

• The Man that is portrayed in (Eze 8.1 - 3) is also mentioned in (Eze 40.3)
• The Man is a representation of the Spirit (Eze 8.2 – 3; 43.5 – 6)
• The Hand of Yahweh is also the Spirit (Eze 3.14; 8.3; 37.1)
• The Man and the Glory are often associated with Yahweh
• We have the Man bringing Ezekiel back to the east gate (Eze 44.1)
• Prior to this, the Man was w/Ezekiel by the east gate (Eze 43.1)


We have the Trinity proclaimed in Ezekiel:

• The Spirit & the Glory are mentioned together – but at the same time, distinction is made between them (Eze 1.28 – 2.2; 3.12 – 14, 23 – 24; 8.3 – 4; 10.18 – 11.1, 22 – 23; 43.1 – 5)
• The Man quotes the Father (Yahweh) (Eze 44.6; 45.9, 18; 46.1, 16; 47.13)
• The Glory quotes the Father (Yahweh) (Eze 3.11 – 12; 11.5; 43.18, 19, 27)
• The Man (Eze 44.1) referred the Glory, and went through the east gate into the temple (Eze 43.2 – 5), as Yahweh the Father (Eze 44.2)
• Therefore, the Glory (the Word) is the Son
• The Man (The Hand of Yahweh) is the Spirit
• Yahweh is the Father
 

daqq

Well-known member
How about Ezekiel?

We have the Son proclaimed in Ezekiel:

• The Word (Eze 1.3)
• Also called the Glory (Eze 1.28)
• The Glory has the appearance of a Man (Eze 1.26 – 28)
• Compare how the NT refers to the Son as the Glory & the Word (John 1.14; Heb 1.3)
• Ezekiel states that the Glory by the river (Eze 1.3, 28) is the same Glory as mentioned throughout the book (Eze 3.22 – 23; 10.18 – 20; 43.3)


We have the Spirit proclaimed in Ezekiel:

• The Man that is portrayed in (Eze 8.1 - 3) is also mentioned in (Eze 40.3)
• The Man is a representation of the Spirit (Eze 8.2 – 3; 43.5 – 6)
• The Hand of Yahweh is also the Spirit (Eze 3.14; 8.3; 37.1)
• The Man and the Glory are often associated with Yahweh
• We have the Man bringing Ezekiel back to the east gate (Eze 44.1)
• Prior to this, the Man was w/Ezekiel by the east gate (Eze 43.1)


We have the Trinity proclaimed in Ezekiel:

• The Spirit & the Glory are mentioned together – but at the same time, distinction is made between them (Eze 1.28 – 2.2; 3.12 – 14, 23 – 24; 8.3 – 4; 10.18 – 11.1, 22 – 23; 43.1 – 5)
• The Man quotes the Father (Yahweh) (Eze 44.6; 45.9, 18; 46.1, 16; 47.13)
• The Glory quotes the Father (Yahweh) (Eze 3.11 – 12; 11.5; 43.18, 19, 27)
• The Man (Eze 44.1) referred the Glory, and went through the east gate into the temple (Eze 43.2 – 5), as Yahweh the Father (Eze 44.2)
• Therefore, the Glory (the Word) is the Son
• The Man (The Hand of Yahweh) is the Spirit
• Yahweh is the Father

Hmmm, so turn everything into a man and, wallah, suddenly the Father is also a man and therefore "Jesus is YHWH" as you say? Nope, sorry, no deal. :)

However Yochanan is told to measure the Temple of God in Rev 11:1 but where does he give the measurements? Remember what Yeshua says about him. :D
 

RevTestament

New member
It has already been shown with much Scripture that YHWH is the Father, so essentially your doctrine is not much different from what several others here are also promoting, which is pretty much what they call the "Oneness Doctrine", which even mainstream Trinitarians call heresy. Not calling you a heretic myself but simply stating what is the case.
Well that is not the case as that is not "oneness" doctrine as that term is currently used. I think basically all trinitarians accept that Christ is YHWH. It is the unitarians that seem to have trouble with it, since that is too close to calling Christ God for their stubborn natures.

Since they will not believe Christ can be God, they cannot receive that He will be their God, and they His sons and daughters. So in this sense trinitarians are closer to the truth.

The goat is not Azazel but rather to/for Azazel.
Do you not see what is right there in black and white and now yellow highlighting from which you quoted? The goat does indeed have a "mortally wounded head" because all the sins of the people are placed upon its head when the Priest places his hands upon the head of the goat and confesses all the sins.
If he was mortally wounded Daqq, a "fit man" would not lead him off into the wilderness. Did Jesus have all the sins of men laid on Him? Did that mortally wound Him or did men mortally wound Him? I didn't realize that Jews had a tradition that the goat is wicked and throw him off a cliff. Does that come from the Talmud? I don't know much about Jewish tradition. But this is just another case of men inserting their ideas into the scriptures just as the Christians did.
Also I do not understand what you mean by "the goat was made live in the word"? These things are SPIRIT, it does not concern a literal goat, it is a teaching of doctrine.
Being live does indicate spiritual things my friend. How do you not get that? The goat is specified as being live. That is reflective of YHWH or "being" or "breathing" or having life - being made alive in the Word. How can people not see that?
The very reason that it was decided to destroy the goat, even though it is not outwardly commanded anywhere in Torah, was because of the catastrophic spiritual implications if by chance the goat was to wander back into the camp with all of the sins of the people upon its mortally wounded head, (at that point the goat is clearly deemed unclean). In tradition the goat is said to have been thrust off from a rocky cliff to its destruction, (the same imagery by the way as that found concerning Azazel in 1Enoch).
Wow, that is quite a different conception of the scapegoat. Who does tradition say the "fit man" is? If it is the priest, why not just say the priest?
Also it does not appear that you fully comprehend the office of the Priest in this function: the Priest does not "bear the sins of the people" indefinitely, but rather only temporarily, and that is so as to "bear up" the sins from off the people and then place them upon the head of the live goat to be sent away into the wilderness. Yeshua does the same thing throughout his ministry as he heals people, bearing up their sins, and especially those to whom he says they are made whole, and their sins are aphiemi-sent-away: he does not bear the sins of the people forever but rather only in a temporary fashion so as to place them upon the head of the twin old man nature to be sent away.
Well from the scripture it seems to say that responsibility for the sins of the people get past down to the priest from his father, who bears them in his stead. That this is temporary is born out in scriptures like
Isaiah 22: 20 ¶And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:
21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
23 And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father’s house.
24 And they shall hang upon him all the glory of his father’s house, the offspring and the issue, all vessels of small quantity, from the vessels of cups, even to all the vessels of flagons.
25 In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, shall the nail that is fastened
in the sure place be removed, and be cut down, and fall; and the burden that was upon it shall be cut off
: for the Lord hath spoken it.
Therefore he says, "Sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto you", for example the first unclean spirit of the world and prince of the power of the air, (which every new disciple formerly served as Paul says) coming back with seven other spirits more wicked than himself. Likewise these things are SPIRIT just as the words of Yeshua are SPIRIT and LIFE.
Which is why the goat is LIVE. :)
 

Apple7

New member
Hmmm, so turn everything into a man and, wallah, suddenly the Father is also a man and therefore "Jesus is YHWH" as you say? Nope, sorry, no deal. :)

I would ignore Ezekiel totally too...if I were you...



However Yochanan is told to measure the Temple of God in Rev 11:1 but where does he give the measurements? Remember what Yeshua says about him. :D

Another Book promoting The Trinity.

Go for it....let's see what you've got...
 

Pierac

New member
I have tried to make the same points you make on words being plural.

The point of God being one comes from a Jewish scholar. Since Elohim is plural the Jew always qualify their God as 'LORD (Jehovah) God'.
So when one quotes Deu 6: 4
it points out 'the LORD(Jehovah) our God is one'.

When speaking of Jesus it also points out that the Redeemer is LORD God in the flesh.



Jobs 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
Isai 44:6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me

The Son of God did not exist nor spoke for God at the time of Job or Isa.... SO... How so? :readthis:

Your confused...
:poly::sherlock:
Paul
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
There is absolutely no denial at Malek Yahweh is Yahweh, only affirmation.

You are a bonified idiot.

He clearly said do not offer the burnt offering to him, but offer it to God.

For just like you, Manoah thought he was God.

Maybe you had better go ask yer wife what's up.

:dead:
 

Pierac

New member
:poly::sherlock:
That has little to do with what I asked.

Frankly, it seems as if you refute without even hearing. Perhaps that is best for you.

There is one God, the creator, the merciful, the righteous, the way, the saviour, existence.

However, know that there is an opposing negative consuming, writhing, insidious, corrupt, void that is literally in all things as the majority of the very material existence as we know it. This is evident in the first o Mrs of the Torah, and theorized in modern science which also theorizes the existence of the one God.
I do not deny that there is but one God.
It may behoove you per your perspective to understand that there is a destroyer, or consumer, and that it is opposite the creator in every way. Do they not speak of sheol, or hell, or baal or satan where you learn?

I agree that dwelling on such is counterproductive, but to me denying it altogether seams much more faulty. Thanks.

All praise is to the one God the Creator

Your babbling like an idiot on the streets of NewYork City... I have no idea what you are trying to say.... How does the Hebraic form of speech called "the plural of majesty."

Have anything what so ever to do with... your comment of sheol, or hell, or baal or satan!


Are you a simple minded Christian that lashes out against the truth with simple minded comments about Satan? If you can't debate that's cool... BUT just don't call on Satan... to protect you in a post you cant even begin to defend! Are You really this spirituality weak? :think:

Study Harder!!!
:poly::sherlock:
Paul
 

Pierac

New member
No.

All you did was to recycle your old, worn-out cut-n-paste.

Show us in scripture the words 'majestic plural'.

Table turning time.

Owned!:D

Don't hate me for making your traditions of men look like the Biblical fools you post and say! :readthis:

How many faces did Joseph have.... :think:

Gen 43:31 Then he washed his face 6440

H6440

Strongs...Plural (but always used as a singular)


Who's your plural daddy now! :readthis:
Apple7 I have been eating traditions of men followers like you for lunch for years here! Is it really taking you this long to catch on? :think:

:poly::sherlock:
Paul
 

Pierac

New member
They all do that...which is why it's a waste of time responding to ANY of them.

Peter spoke of men like you... they willingly are ignorant!

You feel the need to follow men and remain willingly ignorant... than to come out and seek the Lord! :dunce:

:poly::sherlock:
Paul
 

Apple7

New member
You are a bonified idiot.

He clearly said do not offer the burnt offering to him, but offer it to God.

For just like you, Manoah thought he was God.

Maybe you had better go ask yer wife what's up.

:dead:


Malek Yahweh IS Yahweh.

Judges 6 will clear up your myopic vision...
 

Apple7

New member
Don't hate me for making your traditions of men look like the Biblical fools you post and say! :readthis:

How many faces did Joseph have.... :think:

Gen 43:31 Then he washed his face 6440

H6440

Strongs...Plural (but always used as a singular)


Who's your plural daddy now! :readthis:
Apple7 I have been eating traditions of men followers like you for lunch for years here! Is it really taking you this long to catch on? :think:

:poly::sherlock:
Paul


Still waiting for you to show us 'majestic plural' in the scriptures...
 

Pierac

New member
Still waiting for you to show us 'majestic plural' in the scriptures...
Nope.

Trinity-deniers are forever having to invent some sort of excuse for the legions of plurals that they encounter, for the One God, time and time again in scripture.

Trinitarians don't have this issue...



Fine... Hebrew scripture reads... Joseph wept to see his brothers, we read that Joseph "washed his faces" (plural). Even though I showed you the meaning was singular... I now see You missed the point twice!

Let's pick another singular word that has 'majestic plural' in the meaning! Pay close attention... as per our past post you may easily get confused!

The word elohim is used various ways in Scripture. It is not only used to describe the Almighty, but also individual pagan gods and even mighty human beings. Elohim may be translated as God, god, angels, judges, or even a human being who stands as God's representative or agent. For example, the sons of Heth address Abraham as "a mighty prince," the word for "mighty" being elohim (Genesis 23:6). Some translations have Abraham here being called "Prince of God." Take another instance. In Exodus 4, the Lord tells Moses that he "shall be as God" (elohim) to his brother Aaron. Moses will have God's words in his mouth, and will stand as God's representative before Aaron.

Here is a case where an individual human is called elohim. Again in Exodus 7:1, the Lord says to Moses, "See, I make you God [elohim] to Pharaoh." No one dares to suggest that there is a plurality of persons within Moses because he is called elohim, that is, God's representative. The pagan god Dagon is also called elohim in the Hebrew Bible. The Philistines lamented that the God of Israel was harshly treating "Dagon our God [elohim]" (1 Sam. 5:7). Dagon was a single pagan deity. The same holds true for the single pagan god called Chemosh: “Do you not possess what Chemosh your god [elohim] gives you to possess?" (Jud. 11:24). The same for the single deity called Baal


:doh:
I went and confused you yet... again!
:poly::sherlock:
Paul
 
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