ECT If MAD is False Why Did Paul Make the Distinction in Romans 4:16?

[Right Divider]

No, but it could be the church.

How can you come to that conclusion? So what exactly do you think gentiles are there?

If this is the way that you want to "interpret" the Bible, then anything is possible.

Maybe I do have blinders but I am trying to see from a different perspective. Rev. 21:22 says no temple. Isn’t the temple being rebuilt a requirement?

There is still a LOT of history between NOW and THEN. It that difficult to understand?

Yes, Israel but I understand Christians to be Israel.

Well that is where you go completely off the rails.

Things before the cross were a physical representation of the spiritual things after the cross. God set Israel apart as his people but today Christians are his people. We are to know no one according to the flesh today.

You're confusing two different things. TODAY we live in the dispensation of God's grace; what came before and will come after are NOT the same thing.

Note that spiritual does NOT mean simply non-physical.

Here is the reason for my blinders. Daniel said the kingdom would be established during the Roman Empire. Jesus shows up during the Roman Empire saying the kingdom was at hand. When Jesus went around preaching the gospel of the kingdom, did it sound like the earthly kingdom you imagine or does it sound like the church?

You're believing someones "ideas" and not the Bible. I don't "imagine" the earthly kingdom, I read about it in the Bible.

You folks and your "spiritual only kingdom" are silly. Do you think that God's kingdom is "just inside people" while the entire world is corrupt and sinful? That's dumb.
God is NOT leaving the physical world to UNBELIEF. I showed it to you, but you prefer blindness.

It’s not for those of the flesh.
Jn. 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Is funny they way that you "interpret" this. Note that WATER here is NOT your precious baptism.... it is PHYSICAL birth. Quit Bible verse hopping and read the NEXT VERSE.

John 3:6 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. ​

God's kingdom will be ON the earth as well as in heaven.

Matt 6:10 (AKJV/PCE)​

(6:10) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven. ​

Why do you deny what is SO clear?

It’s not real obvious.
Lk. 17:20 Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, "The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, 21 nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or 'There!' for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you."

Once again you ignore the context and turn the Bible on its head. Also, throw whatever piece of trash "translation" out and get a Bible.

Luke 17:20-25 (AKJV/PCE)​

(17:20) ¶ And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: (17:21) Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (17:22) And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see [it]. (17:23) And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after [them], nor follow [them]. (17:24) For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one [part] under heaven, shineth unto the other [part] under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. (17:25) But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. ​

• Jesus is talking to UNBELIEVERS who were DEMANDING of Him .... they will NOT see the kingdom of heaven.
• Jesus says to there UNBELIEVERS, the kingdom of God is within YOU.... so you think that the kingdom of God is inside unbelievers?
• The YOU there is ISRAEL because He is the KING of Israel.
• Jesus shows that those that WILL see the kingdom come cannot MISS it (lightning across the sky).
• This "the kingdom is inside of individuals" is simple a BOGUS anti-interpretation of the Bible that too many accept while rejecting the truth.

Doesn’t this sound like the gospel?
Matt. 13:18 "Hear then the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path. 20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away. 22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. 23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty."

Which gospel?

 

[Right Divider]

What do you see as the mystery of Christ?

Paul explains it in Ephesians 3. Just read it without your preconceived ideas of what it means.

How is it a stretch? It fits perfectly. Now that Jesus has died for all men, the Gentiles are grafted into Christ. If it's not the body/church, what do you believe it is?

Yes, analogy. That's all it is an analogy and that is not grounds for making it something different.

It does not say that Gentiles are grafted into Christ. That's, once again, HOW you are interpreting it and NOT what it says.

Christ is never called an olive tree.

The ONE NEW MAN is not something OLD that can be "grafted into".

It is NEW.

 

[turbosixx]

It can't for them because of 2P2P. 2P2P must be kept intact so that 'the Bible makes sense' they say.

I am trying to see it their way but it's not adding up.

 

[turbosixx]

Paul explains it in Ephesians 3. Just read it without your preconceived ideas of what it means.

I have and what I see is the fact the Gentiles are now included in the promise is the mystery.

Eph. 3:6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

It does not say that Gentiles are grafted into Christ. That's, once again, HOW you are interpreting it and NOT what it says.

Christ is never called an olive tree.

I understand Christ to be the root that supplies God's people.

Rom. 11:16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

1 Cor. 10:4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.

The ONE NEW MAN is not something OLD that can be "grafted into".

It is NEW.

You've told me what it's not but not what it is?

 

[turbosixx]

How can you come to that conclusion? So what exactly do you think gentiles are there?

If this is the way that you want to "interpret" the Bible, then anything is possible.


There is still a LOT of history between NOW and THEN. It that difficult to understand?


Well that is where you go completely off the rails.


You're confusing two different things. TODAY we live in the dispensation of God's grace; what came before and will come after are NOT the same thing.

Note that spiritual does NOT mean simply non-physical.


You're believing someones "ideas" and not the Bible. I don't "imagine" the earthly kingdom, I read about it in the Bible.

You folks and your "spiritual only kingdom" are silly. Do you think that God's kingdom is "just inside people" while the entire world is corrupt and sinful? That's dumb.
God is NOT leaving the physical world to UNBELIEF. I showed it to you, but you prefer blindness.


Is funny they way that you "interpret" this. Note that WATER here is NOT your precious baptism.... it is PHYSICAL birth. Quit Bible verse hopping and read the NEXT VERSE.

John 3:6 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. ​

God's kingdom will be ON the earth as well as in heaven.

Matt 6:10 (AKJV/PCE)​

(6:10) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven. ​

Why do you deny what is SO clear?

Once again you ignore the context and turn the Bible on its head. Also, throw whatever piece of trash "translation" out and get a Bible.

Luke 17:20-25 (AKJV/PCE)​

(17:20) ¶ And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: (17:21) Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (17:22) And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see [it]. (17:23) And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after [them], nor follow [them]. (17:24) For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one [part] under heaven, shineth unto the other [part] under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. (17:25) But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. ​

• Jesus is talking to UNBELIEVERS who were DEMANDING of Him .... they will NOT see the kingdom of heaven.
• Jesus says to there UNBELIEVERS, the kingdom of God is within YOU.... so you think that the kingdom of God is inside unbelievers?
• The YOU there is ISRAEL because He is the KING of Israel.
• Jesus shows that those that WILL see the kingdom come cannot MISS it (lightning across the sky).
• This "the kingdom is inside of individuals" is simple a BOGUS anti-interpretation of the Bible that too many accept while rejecting the truth.

Which gospel?

How will an "earthly" kingdom be better than the church?

 

[Right Divider]

I have and what I see is the fact the Gentiles are now included in the promise is the mystery.

Eph. 3:6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

Do you not notice that Paul ALWAYS singles HIMSELF out as to what he was teaching here? He NEVER says we or us.... it's always ME and MINE.

Eph 3:1-13 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:1) For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, (3:2) If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: (3:3) How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, (3:4) Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)(3:5) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; (3:6) That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: (3:7) Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. (3:8) Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; (3:9) And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: (3:10) To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, (3:11) According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: (3:12) In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. (3:13) Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory. ​

Paul was NOT being selfish. God gave something uniquely to him for us.

I understand Christ to be the root that supplies God's people.

Rom. 11:16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

1 Cor. 10:4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.

Jesus Christ is the foundation of BOTH what God is and was doing on EARTH and this NEW thing that has its connection to HEAVEN.

See Jesus in Matt 6 and Paul in Col 3.

Also see what Paul says will EVENTUALLY happen:

Eph 1:10 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:10) That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:
​

This current day is NOT the dispensation of the fullness of times. That is yet to come.

You've told me what it's not but not what it is?

Really? I told you about the ONE NEW MAN..... this is NEITHER Jew NOR Greek, NEITHER male NOR female, NEITHER bond NOR free.

This is NOT some sort of contrived "spiritual Israel" where there are Jews AND gentiles.

 

[Right Divider]

How will an "earthly" kingdom be better than the church?

Why does one have to be better than the other?

The earthly one must come because God promised it and HE does NOT lie.

 

[turbosixx]

Do you not notice that Paul ALWAYS singles HIMSELF out as to what he was teaching here? He NEVER says we or us.... it's always ME and MINE.


Paul was NOT being selfish. God gave something uniquely to him for us.

Not ALWAYS.

Gal. 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
1 Cor. 15:11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.
2 Thes. 2:14 To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I believe Paul stressed his message for several reasons, because others were teaching falsely, because he was an apostle “born” out of time, because he was suffering for it as examples.

When Paul and the 12 compared gospels, there was no debate about one being different than the other. If they were different, wouldn't we see them discussing it? That's why they were there.

Jesus Christ is the foundation of BOTH what God is and was doing on EARTH and this NEW thing that has its connection to HEAVEN.

See Jesus in Matt 6 and Paul in Col 3.

Also see what Paul says will EVENTUALLY happen:

Eph 1:10 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:10) That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:
​

This current day is NOT the dispensation of the fullness of times. That is yet to come.

Christians are currently on the earth and those who have died are in paradise. Christians do his will on earth as it's done in Heaven.
1 Thes. 4:1 Finally, then, brothers, we ask and urge you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God, just as you are doing, that you do so more and more. 2 For you know what instructions we gave you through the Lord Jesus.

Really? I told you about the ONE NEW MAN..... this is NEITHER Jew NOR Greek, NEITHER male NOR female, NEITHER bond NOR free.

I’m sorry, I thought you said the olive tree was not the body. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the one new man the body?

This is NOT some sort of contrived "spiritual Israel" where there are Jews AND gentiles.

Why is it not? Jew and Gentile are fellow heirs.

Eph. 2: 11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called "the uncircumcision" by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,

 

[turbosixx]

Why does one have to be better than the other?

The earthly one must come because God promised it and HE does NOT lie.

God promised a kingdom and described it using terminology they could understand but that doesn't mean they understood exactly what it would be. He used physical things to describe spiritual.

Jn. 3:3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." 4 Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"



3:9 Nicodemus said to him, "How can these things be?" 10 Jesus answered him, "Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

I would say the church is greater. This "earthly" kingdom is to last "1,000" years, the church is going on 2,000. This earthly kingdom will once again divide Jew and Gentile, the church brings them together. I could go on but you get the picture.

If you don't believe the church is better than this "earthly" kingdom, you have to admit it's at least as good. Where are the prophecies about the church?

 

[Right Divider]

Not ALWAYS.

Gal. 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
1 Cor. 15:11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.
2 Thes. 2:14 To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I believe Paul stressed his message for several reasons, because others were teaching falsely, because he was an apostle “born” out of time, because he was suffering for it as examples.

I was GENERALIZING.... I guess I should have been more specific. I guess that ALL of those in the SINGLE passage that I quoted are just ignored by you.

When Paul and the 12 compared gospels, there was no debate about one being different than the other. If they were different, wouldn't we see them discussing it? That's why they were there.

Nonsense again. Your blindness looks to be permanent.

Christians are currently on the earth and those who have died are in paradise. Christians do his will on earth as it's done in Heaven.
1 Thes. 4:1 Finally, then, brothers, we ask and urge you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God, just as you are doing, that you do so more and more. 2 For you know what instructions we gave you through the Lord Jesus.

What is "His will"? What was "His will" for Israel? You're quite the equivocator.

I like how you COMPLETELY ignored the dispensation of the fullness of times and BOTH of the things that will be gathered together. Good work.

I’m sorry, I thought you said the olive tree was not the body. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the one new man the body?

The olive tree is not the one new man. The body of Christ is the one new man. Gentiles joining with Israel is neither.

Why is it not? Jew and Gentile are fellow heirs.

Eph. 2: 11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called "the uncircumcision" by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,

When did the BUT NOW start? Why didn't the 12 preach it on Pentecost or any time thereafter?

Do you follow Paul as he follows Christ or do you follow the 12 apostles that will judge the 12 tribes of Israel as they followed the minister of the circumcision?

I can see that your willingness to learn was a ruse and that your blindness is permanent. Have a great time with your magic kingdom.

 

[Right Divider]

God promised a kingdom and described it using terminology they could understand but that doesn't mean they understood exactly what it would be. He used physical things to describe spiritual.

Jn. 3:3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." 4 Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"

3:9 Nicodemus said to him, "How can these things be?" 10 Jesus answered him, "Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

I would say the church is greater. This "earthly" kingdom is to last "1,000" years, the church is going on 2,000. This earthly kingdom will once again divide Jew and Gentile, the church brings them together. I could go on but you get the picture.

If you don't believe the church is better than this "earthly" kingdom, you have to admit it's at least as good. Where are the prophecies about the church?

No, the earthly kingdom will last forever.

Dan 2:44 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:44) And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.​

It's too bad that you believe so little of the scripture.

 

[turbosixx]

When did the BUT NOW start? Why didn't the 12 preach it on Pentecost or any time thereafter?

The now started with the blood of Christ.
Eph. 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

The 12 didn't preach it because the Jews needed to hear it first.
Rom. 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Do you follow Paul as he follows Christ or do you follow the 12 apostles that will judge the 12 tribes of Israel as they followed the minister of the circumcision?

That's the beauty of the way I understand it. They're all in agreement and there's harmony with all the scriptures saying the same thing. Therefore I follow both.

Mk. 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved,
Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized,
Acts 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their wounds; and he was baptized at once, he and all his family. 34 Then he brought them up into his house and set food before them. And he rejoiced along with his entire household that he had believed in God.
Acts 18:8 Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.

As I study I will always think about what we've talked about.

 

[turbosixx]

No, the earthly kingdom will last forever.

Dan 2:44 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:44) And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.​

It's too bad that you believe so little of the scripture.

That kingdom in Daniel 2 was established during the Roman Empire which would make it what I understand it to be, the church.

Which I understand will last forever.

 

[Interplanner]

No, the earthly kingdom will last forever.

Dan 2:44 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:44) And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.​

It's too bad that you believe so little of the scripture.

But of course the kingdom he's referring to there can't be located on or dependent on earth because there will be a NHNE in place of this one and I'm not even sure physical reality is the same in it, because of such things as God is the sun and Christ is the temple... But that kingdom definitely will not be shaken. And therefore is not Judaic.

 

[turbosixx]

I like how you COMPLETELY ignored the dispensation of the fullness of times and BOTH of the things that will be gathered together. Good work.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to ignore. I was just dealing with things I thought covered the overall issue.
Eph. 1:10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

I still see this as the church/kingdom.

Matt. 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matt. 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,


As far as a plan for the fullness of time. I understand that to be the final culmination of his plan before the foundation of the world.

Eph. 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.

Gal. 4:4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son,

 

[Right Divider]

That kingdom in Daniel 2 was established during the Roman Empire which would make it what I understand it to be, the church.

Which I understand will last forever.

The kingdoms that it consumed are on the earth; this kingdom of heaven will also be on the earth.

Just like Jesus said in Matt 6

 

[Right Divider]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to ignore. I was just dealing with things I thought covered the overall issue.
Eph. 1:10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

I still see this as the church/kingdom.

Matt. 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matt. 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,


As far as a plan for the fullness of time. I understand that to be the final culmination of his plan before the foundation of the world.

Eph. 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.

Gal. 4:4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son,

Now you're just a Bible word searcher.

The fullness of time that Paul is talking about in Gal 4 is NOT the same one as Eph 1.

 

[turbosixx]

Now you're just a Bible word searcher.

The fullness of time that Paul is talking about in Gal 4 is NOT the same one as Eph 1.

I won't disagree with that but I believe it's talking about the same thing. The Greek word used there in v10 is oikonomian which means management, stewardship or administration which I understand to be the church which will last for eternity (fullness of time).

When I look at the context of Eph. 1 I see the plan was in place before the foundation of the world. The plan was to unite all things in him, in Heaven and on earth. I see him accomplishing that when he established the church.

In Him sin that separated man and God has been removed.
In Him God's spirit dwells in us.
In Him blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places.
In Him Jew and Gentile are united.

You get the idea.


It might help me to see it your way if you could show some prophecies of the church. I believe the restoration of Israel is the church. If it's really about an earthly kingdom then surely there should be something about the church. I have a hard time believing there are no prophecies about something Jesus purchased with his blood.

 

[turbosixx]

The kingdoms that it consumed are on the earth; this kingdom of heaven will also be on the earth.

Just like Jesus said in Matt 6

Daniel 2 says it was established during the Roman Empire, so it must be the church.


It's above every worldly authority.
Eph. 1:20 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. (fullness of time) 22 And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church,

We have victory in Christ. As far as I know, there is only one enemy left.

Matt. 6 was before his death so the cross was still future.

 

[Right Divider]

I won't disagree with that but I believe it's talking about the same thing. The Greek word used there in v10 is oikonomian which means management, stewardship or administration which I understand to be the church which will last for eternity (fullness of time).

You are making a false connection. The "dispensation of the fullness of TIMES" is something different and you should know that.

When I look at the context of Eph. 1 I see the plan was in place before the foundation of the world. The plan was to unite all things in him, in Heaven and on earth. I see him accomplishing that when he established the church.

God's kingdom on the earth will NOT be this sinful corrupt mess that you see today.

In Him sin that separated man and God has been removed.
In Him God's spirit dwells in us.
In Him blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places.
In Him Jew and Gentile are united.

You get the idea.

I get the idea that you only believe a small part of scripture and even then not in its proper context.

It might help me to see it your way if you could show some prophecies of the church. I believe the restoration of Israel is the church.

Once again, the fact that you cannot see that the church which is His body is NOT Israel is your fundamental problem. This corrupts your every understanding of any scripture.

If it's really about an earthly kingdom then surely there should be something about the church. I have a hard time believing there are no prophecies about something Jesus purchased with his blood.

The church which is His body was a mystery not revealed in prophecy.