HOW TO GET TO HEAVEN WHEN YOU DIE

[Epoisses]

The Law of God is that written in stone....and on the conscience of men. Kept inside the Ark.
It points out sin.

The Law of Moses [over 600 rules and regulations) was specifically for the Jews. Kept outside the Ark. It was added because of transgression.

The Law of Moses consisted of rites, ceremonies, and sacrificial offerings for the people of Israel.

Deut. 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. 27 For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the Lord; and how much more after my death?​

This is false. Whenever the law is mentioned by Christ and the apostles it always refers to the Torah or the law of Moses. There was never a division between the ten and the ceremonial law it was all one law. When Christ said the law would not pass away until all was fulfilled he meant the Torah. This is what is meant by the law and the prophets and the psalms, it's referring to the Torah. Matt. 5:17; 7:12; 11:13; 22:40 Luke 16:16; 24:44 Acts 13:15; 24:14; 28:23

 

[glorydaz]

This is false. Whenever the law is mentioned by Christ and the apostles it always refers to the Torah or the law of Moses. There was never a division between the ten and the ceremonial law it was all one law. When Christ said the law would not pass away until all was fulfilled he meant the Torah. This is what is meant by the law and the prophets and the psalms, it's referring to the Torah. Matt. 5:17; 7:12; 11:13; 22:40 Luke 16:16; 24:44 Acts 13:15; 24:14; 28:23

And that's why the Ten were put inside the Ark, and the book of Moses was on the outside, right?

No difference? Then what Law is being spoken of here?

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

So, you claim there was no transgression before the Law of Moses?

Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.​

The Ten are the list of commandments by which all the world is found guilty before God. Your statement about the "law" not applying to Jamie is incorrect. This is the law engraven in stone...written by the finger of God, and it's purpose is to declare all the world guilty before Him.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.​

The Book of Moses contained the temporary remedy...the rights and rituals the Jews had to follow. The Prophets were not part of either law...they were in addition to the law of Moses. One of the verses you were so quick to cite should have told you that.

Acts 28:23
And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.​

 

[God's Truth]

Are you surprised a Jew would say that?

Maybe you should tell JR that he was wrong and I was right?

By the way, I am not surprised that people were water baptized, since it is a command of God's.

Paul was a Jew, Himself, and had not yet received the full revelation from our Risen Lord.

So then, according to that line of reasoning, Jesus told Paul what he HAD TO DO, AND Ananias gave faulty baptism instructions?!

Acts 9:5 “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

I think you are forgetting that Cornelius was a Gentile and his whole household, and they all were water baptized.

Water baptism is not to be forbidden, but it never washed away sins, as the Jews practiced their temporary washings.

The Jews did a water baptism of repentance as John began. John taught the new guidelines for the new covenant.

We are washed by the Spirit not by water.

Baptism is a ceremony of when a person pledges to God that they will die to the sins of the world and live a new life to please Jesus.

 

[glorydaz]

Maybe you should tell JR that he was wrong and I was right?

By the way, I am not surprised that people were water baptized, since it is a command of God's.


So then, according to that line of reasoning, Jesus told Paul what he HAD TO DO, AND Ananias gave faulty baptism instructions?!

I think you are forgetting that Cornelius was a Gentile and his whole household, and they all were water baptized.



The Jews did a water baptism of repentance as John began. John taught the new guidelines for the new covenant.



What baptism is a ceremony of when a person pledges to God that they will die to the sins of the world and live a new life to please Jesus.

You don't see water baptism or repenting of sins in the Gospel.

Do you even know what the Gospel is?

The Gospel is not every single word you see written in the New Testament....like women having long hair, etc. The Gospel is very simple. It's as simple as accepting any gift.

There is a reason for that, but I'm not going to waste my time telling you about what was accomplished by our Lord on the cross. You're still stuck on the law side. High centered and stuck without a ladder.

 

[God's Truth]

You don't see water baptism or repenting of sins in the Gospel.

Do you even know what the Gospel is?

The Gospel is not every single word you see written in the New Testament....like women having long hair, etc. The Gospel is very simple. It's as simple as accepting any gift.

There is a reason for that, but I'm not going to waste my time telling you about what was accomplished by our Lord on the cross. You're still stuck on the law side. High centered and stuck without a ladder.

There isn't a different side to the cross.

The gospel is about Jesus dying for our sins.

We must repent of our sins and have faith that Jesus' blood washes away those sins.

Paul taught what Jesus, John the baptizer, and all the apostles taught.

Why would God humble Paul before them? Could it be because they were not really saved because they did not repent of their sins?

2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.

Listen to what Paul says, he says repent and have faith is what he preached:

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

 

[glorydaz]

Maybe you should tell JR that he was wrong and I was right?

He wasn't wrong.

So then, according to that line of reasoning, Jesus told Paul what he HAD TO DO, AND Ananias gave faulty baptism instructions?!

No, that's your simplistic reading. Paul was saved on the Road to Damascus. Now he is to go get his marching orders.

Acts 9:5 “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

The Lord prepares Ananias for his coming...that his blindness would fall away.

Acts 9:12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.​

Ananias is understandably worried because this was the famous Saul.

Acts 9:13-14 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.​

Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:​

Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.​

Whether Paul was water baptised at this time or not isn't clear to me, but one thing we know for sure. Ananias did not preach the Gospel of Salvation to Paul. So any water baptism that may or may not have taken place because Paul was Jew, had nothing to do with Paul being saved.

Gal. 1:11-12 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.​

Here we see what Ananias was to tell Paul.

Acts 22:12-16 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there, 13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him. 14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth. 15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.​

Here is Ananias, a man of the law, speaking on his own...exactly as was preached by Peter in Acts 2. That isn't the Gospel of Salvation, and no where is it recorded that the Lord told Ananias to baptise Paul. If you can prove otherwise, do so....not with supposition or innuendo, but straight up.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.​

 

[God's Truth]

He wasn't wrong.

He said Paul was not water baptized. YOU argued that Paul was.

No, that's your simplistic reading. Paul was saved on the Road to Damascus. Now he is to go get his marching orders.

No, Paul was not saved on the road to Damascus.

Paul still had to obey and repent.

He was still blind, fasting and praying.

The Lord prepares Ananias for his coming...that his blindness would fall away.

Acts 9:12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.​

Ananias is understandably worried because this was the famous Saul.

Acts 9:13-14 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.​

What does that have to do with what we are talking about? lol

Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:​

Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.​

Whether Paul was water baptised at this time or not isn't clear to me, but one thing we know for sure.

hahahaha You were pretty sure before that the Jew Paul was water baptized by the Jew Ananias.

Ananias did not preach the Gospel of Salvation to Paul.

Acts 22:14 “Then he said: ‘The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. 15 You will be his witness to all people of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’


Paul had to repent of his sins before he was given salvation and understanding.

So any water baptism that may or may not have taken place because Paul was Jew, had nothing to do with Paul being saved.

Paul was so remorseful for his sins that he did not even eat or drink for three days as he spent that time praying.

We have to repent of our sins to be saved. Paul even preached that. See Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Gal. 1:11-12 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.​

Here we see what Ananias was to tell Paul.

Acts 22:12-16 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there, 13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him. 14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth. 15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.​

Here is Ananias, a man of the law, speaking on his own...exactly as was preached by Peter in Acts 2. That isn't the Gospel of Salvation, and no where is it recorded that the Lord told Ananias to baptise Paul. If you can prove otherwise, do so....not with supposition or innuendo, but straight up.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.​

Wow. You are saying Ananias didn't tell Paul what Jesus wanted him to tell him.

 

[Epoisses]

And that's why the Ten were put inside the Ark, and the book of Moses was on the outside, right?

No difference? Then what Law is being spoken of here?



So, you claim there was no transgression before the Law of Moses?

Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.​

The Ten are the list of commandments by which all the world is found guilty before God. Your statement about the "law" not applying to Jamie is incorrect. This is the law engraven in stone...written by the finger of God, and it's purpose is to declare all the world guilty before Him.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.​

The Book of Moses contained the temporary remedy...the rights and rituals the Jews had to follow. The Prophets were not part of either law...they were in addition to the law of Moses. One of the verses you were so quick to cite should have told you that.

Acts 28:23
And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.​

So why don't you keep the 7th day Sabbath then seeing that is part of the ten? That's where your corrupt theology leads but you're too stupid to see it. The pure gospel is devoid of all law.

 

[JudgeRightly]

So why don't you keep the 7th day Sabbath then seeing that is part of the ten? That's where your corrupt theology leads but you're too stupid to see it. The pure gospel is devoid of all law.

Because the ten commandments are part of the Law.

Christians are not under Law, but under Grace.

 

[glorydaz]

So why don't you keep the 7th day Sabbath then seeing that is part of the ten? That's where your corrupt theology leads but you're too stupid to see it. The pure gospel is devoid of all law.

Why do you have to be so nasty? Just ask a question and I'll answer it.
You said there was no difference, and I showed you there was.
The Law of Moses was for the Jews, and the Ten Commandments are for everyone.

There is no law that can make us holy....no law can give us life, and no law can justify us.

Righteousness does not come from any law keeping.

Jesus fulfilled the Sabbath, just as he fulfilled all the other commandments.

 

[Ktoyou]

So why don't you keep the 7th day Sabbath then seeing that is part of the ten? That's where your corrupt theology leads but you're too stupid to see it. The pure gospel is devoid of all law.

Being in Christ,not Law

Christian here, not a Jew

 

[glorydaz]

Are you surprised a Jew would say that? Paul was a Jew, Himself, and had not yet received the full revelation from our Risen Lord. Water baptism is not to be forbidden, but it never washed away sins, as the Jews practiced their temporary washings.

We are washed by the Spirit not by water.

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.​

He said Paul was not water baptized. YOU argued that Paul was.

This is how you twist the words of others. I, for one, am sick of it. Show me where I argued Paul was water baptized. I didn't, because I don't know, and have never claimed to know. Most people admit it isn't clear.

No, Paul was not saved on the road to Damascus.

Paul still had to obey and repent.

He was still blind, fasting and praying.

Of course he was saved on the road to Damascus. He believed, was persuaded, and was led blind to where the Lord told him to go. He didn't run off to the temple, or to a Jewish physician, did he? :nono:

hahahaha You were pretty sure before that the Jew Paul was water baptized by the Jew Ananias.

Laugh, sherlock, but try reading what is actually posted. :sherlock:

Acts 22:14 “Then he said: ‘The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. 15 You will be his witness to all people of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’

Ananias delivered the message. He said, "What are you waiting for...." The message had been delivered, and clearly, Ananias was adding his own understanding to what Paul should do next. You can't show me where the Lord told Ananias to say any such thing, because it isn't there.

Paul had to repent of his sins before he was given salvation and understanding.

There you go, perverting the Gospel of Grace that the Lord sent Paul to preach. There is NO "repent of your sins" in the Gospel of Grace. Find it, read it, don't read your misunderstandings into God's word.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.​

Paul was so remorseful for his sins that he did not even eat or drink for three days as he spent that time praying.

Foolish woman.

We have to repent of our sins to be saved. Paul even preached that. See Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Repentance TOWARD GOD and faith in Jesus Christ. That is not the repentance of sin that you always claim. We've been over this time and time again.

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.​

Wow. You are saying Ananias didn't tell Paul what Jesus wanted him to tell him.

No, Ananias told him exactly what Jesus said to tell him, and then he added, "What are you waiting for......" Are you claiming Jesus told him to say that? :chuckle:

 

[Epoisses]

Why do you have to be so nasty? Just ask a question and I'll answer it.
You said there was no difference, and I showed you there was.
The Law of Moses was for the Jews, and the Ten Commandments are for everyone.

There is no law that can make us holy....no law can give us life, and no law can justify us.

Righteousness does not come from any law keeping.

Jesus fulfilled the Sabbath, just as he fulfilled all the other commandments.

You're just the typical Christian who doesn't know the law. You don't even know what the ten commandments say which you supposedly uphold showing you are grossly ignorant. If we were in court of law you would be thrown out for contempt.

 

[Epoisses]

Because the ten commandments are part of the Law.

Christians are not under Law, but under Grace.

That's what I said if you were following along at all.

 

[JudgeRightly]

That's what I said if you were following along at all.

Glory, for the most part, believes the same as I do on this matter (correct me if I'm wrong, [MENTION=490]Glorydayz[/MENTION])

 

[Epoisses]

Glory, for the most part, believes the same as I do on this matter (correct me if I'm wrong, [MENTION=490]Glorydayz[/MENTION])

She said the ten commandments are still binding on Christians, is that your position?

 

[JudgeRightly]

She said the ten commandments are still binding on Christians, is that your position?

Could you provide the link to her post where she said that?

Otherwise, I'd tend to go with this:

You said there was no difference, and I showed you there was.
The Law of Moses was for the Jews, and the Ten Commandments are for everyone.

There is no law that can make us holy....no law can give us life, and no law can justify us.

Righteousness does not come from any law keeping.

Jesus fulfilled the Sabbath, just as he fulfilled all the other commandments.

 

[Epoisses]

Post #660

And that's why the Ten were put inside the Ark, and the book of Moses was on the outside, right?

No difference? Then what Law is being spoken of here?

So, you claim there was no transgression before the Law of Moses?

Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.​

The Ten are the list of commandments by which all the world is found guilty before God. Your statement about the "law" not applying to Jamie is incorrect. This is the law engraven in stone...written by the finger of God, and it's purpose is to declare all the world guilty before Him.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.​

The Book of Moses contained the temporary remedy...the rights and rituals the Jews had to follow. The Prophets were not part of either law...they were in addition to the law of Moses. One of the verses you were so quick to cite should have told you that.

Acts 28:23
And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.​

 

[glorydaz]

Could you provide the link to her post where she said that?

Otherwise, I'd tend to go with this:

Thanks, JR. I didn't say the Ten were "binding" at all. How can a commandment bind anyone? Does the law to go 55 mph, keep us from speeding? Of course not. It's merely the standard we follow to keep from getting a ticket.



The purpose of the Law (the commandments written in stone) remains what it always was ....to show men their sin, and to lead them to Christ. It's God's eternal law written in the hearts of all men. That's where a guilty conscience comes from. We know it is wrong to kill, etc.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.​

I share this with you for discussion. For some reason there are certain people here who like to read something into the posts of others that simply isn't there. No matter how simple you try to make it.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Post #660

Remember this verse? (which Glory did quote, btw):

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. - Romans 3:19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans3:19&version=NKJV

That also means: "whatever the law says, it does NOT say to those who are NOT under the law." And because Christians are no longer under the law, but under grace, then we cannot be condemned by the law. See how that works?