Right, there will be unity in heaven or it will not be heaven.
How the Gospel Refutes All Religions and Reconciles Us to God
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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Right, there will be unity in heaven or it will not be heaven.
beloved57
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You show the utmost dishonor to Christ, teaching that sinners He shed His Blood for, washed away their sins, still wind up lost in their sins anyways!
beloved57
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There's going to be unity in hell also, for false gospel teaching, teaching that sinners Christ died for are going to perish in their sins anyways, unjustified.
musterion
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Peter said there are those who deny Christ even though He already bought them.
Christ has already dealt with the sins of the world, 1 John 2:2.
To bad that you can't believe.
Ask Mr. Religion
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Again, all possess the ability to choose. However, exactly what they are able to choose is the issue. Until God first acts (Deut 29:4, 30:6; Eze. 36:26; Eph. 2:4-5), what the lost will always choose is the lie over the truth.
At no point does Scripture speak in terms of the ability to “exercise faith” or “use faith” or “demonstrate faith” to the lost or the unconverted. This is tantamount to telling a blind man to exercise sight, a deaf man to use hearing, or a man with no tongue to demonstrate taste.
Simply put, there is no such thing as unused faith. There is no such thing as undemonstrated faith. There is no such thing as unexercised faith. The blind man is blind, not because he is not using sight but because he has no sight. The deaf man is deaf, not because he is choosing not to demonstrate hearing, but because he has no hearing. The lost man is lost, not because he is not using faith but because he is faithless; he has none of his own to offer. This is an apt illustration, since Our Lord described the unconverted multitudes as those who were “seeing but never perceiving, hearing but never understanding” (Mark 4:12).
The illustrative evangelist above might more accurately cry out the command, “Believe!” The blind really can be given sight. The deaf really can hear. God is capable of working miracles, and He especially delights in doing so in the realm of salvation. Dead, dry bones really can rise up and live (Ezekiel 37). But the miracles of spiritual sight, hearing, and life are given through a proclamation command that they should live.
As in Our Lord in Luke 5:23, the paralyzed man was commanded to rise up and walk; he was not exhorted to reach down inside himself and find the strength to walk. He had none; his spinal cord was malfunctioning—he was paralyzed. As Our Lord healed the paralyzed man, he was not at a decision point. He was at an intersection with a divine miracle and God, who could raise the lame as well as the dead. Likewise, the faithless man does not find it within himself to have faith; it must come from somewhere else.
The passage from Thessalonians you have used speaks to those already destined to perish, to which God righteously sends a powerful delusion, in the beginning of His judgment their sin. As is clear elsewhere in Scripture, God punishes sin by sin (e. g., Deut 29:4; Is 6:9-10). Paul confirms this in 2 Thess. 2:10,12.
In the passage, God indisputably causes these people near the end times to be deluded because they refused to love the truth and so be saved and because they have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. The text thus pictures the completion of the process portrayed as having begun in Romans 1:18-32 (see also 1 Kings 22:18-23).
The slaying and condemnation of 2 Thess. 2: 8,12 is the consummation of the spiritual death that, according to 2 Thess. 2:10, that has set in among unbelievers who are already perishing. Spiritual death, separation from life with God (Eph 2:1 5,12), begins in this life and continues in the future eternal state for those who never repent. Paul has already alluded to this death in 2 Thess. 1:6-9, which defines the concept of "perishing" as ongoing suffering of unbelievers away "from the presence of the Lord".
AMR
According to what you believe Paul and the apostles wasted 20 years of their lives preaching the Gospel to the pagan Gentiles. Instead they should have been taking a poll to see who had been predestinated.
Ask Mr. Religion
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The passage you cite contains the answer, Robert. Those that heard really did not hear for there was no faith accompanying the hearing such that they would hear.
So, per your view, you somehow, all on your own, mustered up the faith that your neighbor could not. Since your view is "who knows?" are you claiming your internal ability to choose wisely is but a mystery?
AMR
beloved57
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You teach that sinners Christ died for, dealt with their sins, put them away, still wind up lost in their sins anyways!
I mustered up nothing. I heard the Gospel and was convicted by the Holy Spirit of my need for Christ and I accepted him as my savior, just like those 8,000 Jews on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4.
Ask Mr. Religion
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Rather than just repeating this over and over, take the time to substantiate the assertion with evidence taken from Robert's own words, and then providing a substantive rebuttal to Robert in support of your assertion. Do that thoroughly one time, and then, at least, you can provide a link to support your assertion above the next time you repeat it...and you will I am sure. :AMR:
AMR
You are apparently Bible illiterate.
The reason that... "Whosoever that calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13
Is because Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15 and is Lord.
Ask Mr. Religion
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Why were you convicted and not your neighbor? For that matter, why was not all the entire peoples of the world convicted on the Day of Pentecost?
Why did the Holy Spirit do a work upon you and not upon another? If you were not specifically chosen by the Holy Spirit, then what lies behind this act of the Holy Spirit?
AMR
Nanja
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Pate is in a lost state, and thus blinded 2 Cor. 4:3-4.
He believes in a false gospel of works that a man does.
He does not believe in the Gospel of God's Grace by Divine Election!
~~~
I have seen many, many, people get under conviction when confronted with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
They will clench their fist. Cross their arms, Grit their teeth, Take a step back or walk away.
However, some would accept Christ as their savior and pray with me.
I have personally witnessed to hundreds, maybe thousands on a one to one basis. I learned to become a bold witness for Christ through "Christian in Action", but I don't believe in their doctrine. They are Pentecostals.
beloved57
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You don't believe that Christ death alone saved them He died for. That's so disrespectful to God and Christ.
beloved57
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You don't believe that Christ blood saved them He died for, so you are in unbelief.
beloved57
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But you teach that sinners Christ died for and defeated sin for, still wind up lost in their sins anyways!
beloved57
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Amen Sister! Neither does amr. He teaches that people Christ died for are still born condemned for their sins by God until they are believers, that's salvation by works also.
beloved57
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Robert repeats the same thing over and over again and will not listen, you should see that. But you teach against the death of Christ also, you believe that sinners Christ died for are still born condemned by God, yet the scripture is clear that sinners Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies by His Death Rom 5:10!