How Protestants got sucked into the Rapture

Right Divider

Right Divider

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tetelestai said:
Of course not.

I deny what John Nelson Darby called a "rapture".

What Darby invented is not in the Bible.
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What is the "catching up"? Start a new thread and tell us all about it.
1Th 4:13-18 KJV But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. (14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. (15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. (16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (18) Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
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P.S. Who is John Nelson Darby?
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
What is the "catching up"? Start a new thread and tell us all about it.
1Th 4:13-18 KJV But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. (14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. (15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. (16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (18) Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
​
P.S. Who is John Nelson Darby?
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My understanding of Tetelestaism is that the dead in Christ rose in 70ad and those that were alive and remain (including us) are caught up with them when we die...one at a time. Not together.
 
D

Danoh

New member
tetelestai said:
I've seen all those arguments by Dispies that claim there were men before Darby who preached the rapture. They are all wrong. None of those men preached, or taught what Darby invented.

It drives Dispensationalists crazy that everything they believe didn't exist before Darby. They have desperately tried to show someone teaching what Darby taught before Darby, but they can't.

If you notice, almost every Dispensationalist on TOL does everything they can to not be associated with Darby. That's because they are embarrassed that everything they believe was invented in the mid 1800's by Darby.

They live in denial.
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Yours reminds of Philippians 1:18.

In this, I have to thank you for so endeavoring keep Darby's name out there.
 
steko

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Interplanner said:
I didn't view this yet, but the title is on the wrong track. The problem with the Ribera eschatology is that it is set in future Israel so that there is no way to consider the Pope to be AC. In several years of reading, I don't remember any accusation that Ribera concocted the rapture.

All Paul mean by referring to that translation event was that Christians alive at the last moment of history will be changed from this life to immortality unlike those who died. Obviously.
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You're saying there will be a very 'last moment'?
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
SaulToPaul said:
Yes, Tetelestaism is fatally flawed.
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Not really.

You have to adhere to "soul sleep" until the rapture/resurrection for your theory to work.

steko has to believe that when he dies his soul floats around in Heaven somewhere without any sort of body waiting for the rapture/resurrection to get his new body. Then he believes that after the rapture/resurrection, he returns back to planet earth with Jesus in his new body when the alleged 7 year Trib is over.

I believe that when we die, we are instantly in the presence of the Lord, and in the Kingdom of God with a glorified body forever, and never come back to planet earth.
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Right Divider said:
What is the "catching up"? Start a new thread and tell us all about it.
1Th 4:13-18 KJV But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. (14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. (15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. (16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (18) Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
​
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"we who are alive and remain" is a reference to first century Christians, not Christians today, or in the future.

The context of the passage is believers that had already died.​
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

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SaulToPaul said:
No, some rapture believers are on each side of the debate.
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There are only two sides for rapture believers. That's why I used you and steko as examples of the two sides.

Rapture believers have to either believe in soul sleep, or that their souls go to Heaven and/or Paradise without a body until the rapture/resurrection.

A lot of Dispies believe their souls (without a body) go to Paradise, but most MADists such as yourself don't, because you/they can't have "Body Believers" going to the same place as "kingdom Believers".

Which is why most MADists adhere to soul sleep like you do.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
tetelestai said:
That is like a Mormon asking who is Joseph Smith.

No one is ever going to take you serious as long as you keep living in denial.
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You could not be more wrong. I have never read any JND. I have only heard what some people say about him.

You are the type of liar that likes to TRY to use "quilt by association" even when there is NO association.

That's just plain dishonest on YOUR part.

I would think that someone that names the name of Christ could do better than lie.
 
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tetelestai

tetelestai

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Right Divider said:
You could not be more wrong. I have never read any JND. I have only heard what some people say about him.

You are the type of liar that likes to TRYS to use "quilt by association" even when there is NO association.

That's just plain dishonest on YOUR part.

I would think that someone that names the name of Christ could be better than lie.
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It doesn't matter that you never literally read anything from John Nelson Darby. You're a Dispensationalist, therefore everything you have been taught has come from John Nelson Darby.

IOW, someone who taught you was taught by someone who was taught by someone who was taught by someone, etc. who was taught by John Nelson Darby.

As I said, you live in denial.
 
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