ECT How can there be a another Gospel based on Gal. 1:22 ? The faith Paul once destroy ?

[Interplanner]

I don't believe the debt in Romans is speaking of our sin debt...the wages of which would be death. There would be no "glorying" in what we did if that was the case. It's the debt we owe to our Creator for giving us our being.

Luke 17:7-10 But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink. Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not. So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.​

There are a lot of people that claim their work is somehow a payment for their sins...or a partial payment. I think this verse in Romans 4 is showing that not only untrue, it not even in the same class.

Rom 4 is about justification (what shall we say our father Abraham found in this matter--of justification, ch 3?)

Sin of both a debt and a stain and the solution is to each is a bit different. Justification has to do with debt.

Debt has to be paid off with work done. Either we do it or someone donates it. When you have it taken care by someone else, you have not worked yourself, but have trusted someone else's work, and an announcement has come back accepting someone else's work for you.

The size of debt in the case of justification is far too great for any human. it is infinite. It must be discharged / settled by Christ.

This concept is so real to Paul that he refers to boasting in Christ, meaning that the necessity of work is still there before God but Christ has done the work for our justification.

It would not apply to personal transformation (sanctification).

 

[God's Truth]

I have been telling folks to repent since 1978 do not confuse me with believing repentance is only for Israel I do not.

Scripture is perfectly clear NO ONE can earn their salvation if they could then Jesus died for absolutely nothing.

Eph 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

And Paul did NOT specify ceremonial works it is NO WORK can justify anyone before God because ALL are sinners saved by grace.

Paul says CIRCUMCISION.
Peter says the unstable and ignorant misunderstand Paul, and then he warns us to obey. James says people such as yourself are fools.

 

[God's Truth]

What God's UNtruth says compared to what God says..... She is blinded to what is clearly written.

She preaches DEBT not GRACE.

Romans 4:1-2
What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.​

Romans 4:3-5
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.​

It is about CIRCUMCISION.

Can't you read?

Romans 4:11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.

Read it.

How many times do you have to be told it is about the CEREMONIAL WORKS? Circumcision is the sign of the ceremonial works.

Are you really going to keep going on in life without the truth?

 

[glorydaz]

Rom 4 is about justification (what shall we say our father Abraham found in this matter--of justification, ch 3?)

Sin of both a debt and a stain and the solution is to each is a bit different. Justification has to do with debt.

Debt has to be paid off with work done. Either we do it or someone donates it. When you have it taken care by someone else, you have not worked yourself, but have trusted someone else's work, and an announcement has come back accepting someone else's work for you.

The size of debt in the case of justification is far too great for any human. it is infinite. It must be discharged / settled by Christ.

This concept is so real to Paul that he refers to boasting in Christ, meaning that the necessity of work is still there before God but Christ has done the work for our justification.

It would not apply to personal transformation (sanctification).

I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. I understand justification by faith, and I also know what it means to claim works as something to glory in. There is no glorying in any work we do, whatsoever, because it's no more than we owe as God's creation.

 

[glorydaz]

It is about CIRCUMCISION.

Can't you read?

Romans 4:11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.

Read it.

How many times do you have to be told it is about the CEREMONIAL WORKS? Circumcision is the sign of the ceremonial works.

Are you really going to keep going on in life without the truth?

I read just fine. :chuckle:

It's you that can't see it....right there before your eyes.

Where are the CEREMONIAL WORKS in that text? :chew:


It was a sign and seal of the righteousness of faith without works.

 

[God's Truth]

I read just fine. :chuckle:

It's you that can't see it....right there before your eyes.

Where are the CEREMONIAL WORKS in that text? :chew:


It was a sign and seal of the righteousness of faith without works.

Circumcision is the sign and seal of the ceremonial works.

Circumcision was a righteous work.

Circumcision IS a ceremonial work.

I can hardly believe that you don't know circumcision is a ceremonial work.

One not circumcised was unclean and that person could not be associated with, and that person could not go to the temple.

 

[God's Truth]

The Jews used to do these works to justify themselves, these works to clean themselves:

The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.

We don't have to do any of THOSE works anymore, for Jesus' blood cleans us.

We still have to obey Jesus, we just don't have to get circumcised and don't have to do the rest of those works.

 

[Interplanner]

The Jews used to do these works to justify themselves, these works to clean themselves:

The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.

We don't have to do any of THOSE works anymore, for Jesus' blood cleans us.

We still have to obey Jesus, we just don't have to get circumcised and don't have to do the rest of those works.

that's almost it, but the fruit of the Spirit simply grows. It is very different from 'have to.' You wouldn't use the expression 'have to.' You'd probably use 'want to.'

 

[God's Truth]

that's almost it, but the fruit of the Spirit simply grows. It is very different from 'have to.' You wouldn't use the expression 'have to.' You'd probably use 'want to.'

Why do you say it is almost it? You need to explain more and use scripture. As for you saying the fruit of the Spirit simply grows, what does that have to do with what I said? And give the scripture for that too.

You are wrong when you say we do not have to. It isn't an option. Not everyone who says they believe and have faith want to obey, some don't even think they HAVE TO.

 

[Right Divider]

The meaning of the verse is that before Paul ever got saved the TRUTH was being preached and folks were responding to the GOSPEL and trusting Jesus for their salvation.

The "faith" that Paul once persecuted he ended up preaching AFTER he got saved by trusting Jesus.

Gal 1:22 And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:
Gal 1:23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.

Now take your little shovel and dig your hole even deeper.

Are you completely brain dead?

That was NOT the ONLY thing that Paul PREACHED.

 

[Right Divider]

Who needs to go any further trying to understand what you believe and preach when you preach against obedience to Christ?

Another LIE from a self-righteous unbeliever.

Get saved or get lost GT.

 

[Right Divider]

What's wrong with you? Do you know that Gentiles were without God because they did not do those things?

Made up nonsense.

God separated Israel for purpose.

 

[Right Divider]

It would be nice if you actually believed that! btw, you meant over my head, but the Freudian slip is quite revealing: it is simply something believed by another "head" (yours).

So you're a follower of Freud. That makes sense.

Paul confirmed and revealed it at the same time! It was the Judaism he grew up in that had separated things, because it was veiled to them. It was there the whole time but they would not see it as true "in Christ." To them it had to be true "in Israel." Which is how you believe it is supposed to be true.

You refuse to believe what Paul says about the revelation that the RISEN LORD Jesus Christ gave to him.

You need to ditch those commentaries and believe the Bible.

 

[dodge]

Are you completely brain dead?

NAH, i AINT mad ! Now there is a group of hypocrites who claim to follow Jesus while they actually follow Bullinger and Stam and throw Jesus in as window dressing.

That was NOT the ONLY thing that Paul PREACHED.

So that is supposed to make what is taught in that verse a LIE ? The fact remains that Paul preached the "faith" he once sought to destroy, and if you were even a little honest you would understand that others were in Christ BEFORE Paul even got saved. You are the product of following man made lies and accepting their lies as truth,sadly.

Gal 1:23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.

 

[Right Divider]

So that is supposed to make what is taught in that verse a LIE ?

Of course not. Where would you get such a stupid idea?

The fact remains that Paul preached the "faith" he once sought to destroy, and if you were even a little honest you would understand that others were in Christ BEFORE Paul even got saved. You are the product of following man made lies and accepting their lies as truth,sadly.

Paul taught MORE because he received NEW revelation from the RISEN LORD Jesus Christ.

Sadly, your religious zealotry will not let you understand what is PLAINLY shown in scripture.

Gal 1:23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.

That was NOT the ONLY thing that Paul PREACHED.

 

[dodge]

Of course not. Where would you get such a stupid idea?


Paul taught MORE because he received NEW revelation from the RISEN LORD Jesus Christ.

Sadly, your religious zealotry will not let you understand what is PLAINLY shown in scripture.


That was NOT the ONLY thing that Paul PREACHED.

How would you explain anyone else in the B.O.C. "before Paul" if Paul had this new revelation that had to be known to be saved ?

Rom 16:7
Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

Looks like you are in a cult that IGNORES scripture to follow Bullinger and Stam !

 

[Right Divider]

How would you explain anyone else in the B.O.C. "before Paul" if Paul had this new revelation that had to be known to be saved ?

Rom 16:7
Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

Looks like you are in a cult that IGNORES scripture to follow Bullinger and Stam !

You're so stupid that you give idiots a bad name.

The body of Christ began with Paul per scripture (1 Tim 1:16).

It's not hard to understand unless you're stuck in the rut of man-made "churchianity".

 

[dodge]

You're so stupid that you give idiots a bad name.

The body of Christ began with Paul per scripture (1 Tim 1:16).

It's not hard to understand unless you're stuck in the rut of man-made "churchianity".

lol, you are the one so stupid you cannot see what is right in front of your face !

YOU are calling your IDOL Paul a liar and don't even understand that PAUL says you are a liar, amazingly.

Your "idol" Paul said others were in Christ before him you are the living and true meaning of OBTUSE.

Rom 16:7
Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

Your ignoring what Paul said about others in Christ before him DON'T MEAN PAUL WAS WRONG IT MEANS YOU WOULD NOT ACCEPT THE TRUTH IF IT HIT YOU IN THE EYE.

1 Tim. 1:16 does NOT mean what you think it means.

Ti 1:16
Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, Christ saved Paul when Paul was persecuting Jesus as Jesus said, and how was Paul persecuting Jesus Paul was persecuting the B.O.C.

that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, Does not take a brain surgeon to understand that that part of the verse means God did not strike Paul dead when he was persecuting Jesus by persecuting the B.O.C. but was "longsuffering" towards Paul

for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life
everlasting.
God does not quit on people they quit on God.

That verse has ZERO to do with Paul being in the B.O.C.first YOU ARE DECEIVED.

 

[Right Divider]

lol, you are the one so stupid you cannot see what is right in front of your face !

YOU are calling your IDOL Paul a liar and don't even understand that PAUL says you are a liar, amazingly.

Paul is not my IDOL. That it dodge lie #1,231,543,342,976

Your "idol" Paul said others were in Christ before him you are the living and true meaning of OBTUSE.

Rom 16:7
Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

Your ignoring what Paul said about others in Christ before him DON'T MEAN PAUL WAS WRONG IT MEANS YOU WOULD NOT ACCEPT THE TRUTH IF IT HIT YOU IN THE EYE.

1 Tim. 1:16 does NOT mean what you think it means.

Ti 1:16
Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, Christ saved Paul when Paul was persecuting Jesus as Jesus said, and how was Paul persecuting Jesus Paul was persecuting the B.O.C.

that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, Does not take a brain surgeon to understand that that part of the verse means God did not strike Paul dead when he was persecuting Jesus by persecuting the B.O.C. but was "longsuffering" towards Paul

for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life
everlasting.
God does not quit on people they quit on God.

That verse has ZERO to do with Paul being in the B.O.C.first YOU ARE DECEIVED.

When did the B.O.C begin? Who was the first member?

Paul is the PATTERN..... You don't believe that.

 

[dodge]

Paul is not my IDOL. That it dodge lie #1,231,543,342,976


When did the B.O.C begin? Who was the first member?

Paul is the PATTERN..... You don't believe that.

I would have to call Paul a liar to agree with you.

Paul said others were in Christ before him, and you say no they were not. I will stay with Paul knew to be true and taught.

Rom 16:7
Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.