How do you prove that the apostle John is in the Body of Christ ?
John wrote in John 3:5 is a man BORN and of the Spirit , he can not enter the Kingdom of Heaven , is that true ?
dan p
ECT Grace: God isn't mad at sin, or just isn't doing anything about it at the moment?
- Thread starter musterion
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How do you prove that the apostle John is in the Body of Christ ?
John wrote in John 3:5 is a man BORN and of the Spirit , he can not enter the Kingdom of Heaven , is that true ?
dan p
glorydaz
Well-known member
I used to be a Catholic. When I was saved, I decided the Catholic's idea of "purgatory" was close but no cigar. The Lord tells us in this world we will have tribulation. He was certainly correct, wasn't He? We don't need to wait until we die to suffer.
I remembered this verse, and thought about you and this subject. Now we know this is speaking of God's chosen people, but God ways don't really change.
Psalm 66:10 For thou, O God, hast proved us: thou hast tried us, as silver is tried. 11 Thou broughtest us into the net; thou laidst affliction upon our loins. 12 Thou hast caused men to ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water: but thou broughtest us out into a wealthy place.
Tribulations right here on earth have a way of burning off the dross. Our grumblings and irritation are burned off and replaced with patience. Our doubts are burned off when we trust in God. Patience is worked in us, and experience, and hope.
Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; 4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
Therefore, we are being refined right here on earth. We are being conformed into the image of the Son. This has nothing to do with sin that our Lord bore for us on the cross. This has to do with our old habits and ways of going that are not profitable. AND, it's done by the Lord. Not us. Not after death in "purgatory", but right up until the day of Jesus Christ.
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Our rewards and losses will be how willingly and well that patience etc. was worked in us. Whether we waited or went before the Lord. The Bible speaks of some specific Crowns believers will receive. I hope I don't receive a martyrs crown, because I'm such a chicken at heart.
:chuckle: What are you rambling on about - he was talking about the unsaved they were no longer a part of.
Just a matter of comparing the relevant passages where they share Similar Themes, etc....
One comparison with those themes in 1 Cor. 6, among others that come to mind, is this one...
Ephesians 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth; ) 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
No inheritance for such.
Rather; wrath.
Because they are the unrighteous (lost people).
See a similar theme, in 1 Timothy 1, etc.
Study out their Shared Contrasts, as well, and you'll see the actual distinction he was noting - between the lost, and the saved.
Romans 5:8.
musterion
Well-known member
Col 3:24-25.
He's talking to and about believers.
Yes, Paul was reminding the Corinthians of what they no longer were because many of them still lived as if they were. But there's no point in Paul warning them -- and it is a warning -- that the unsaved can possibly not inherit the Kingdom. They WON'T and that goes without needing said. And had he been talking only of the unsaved, it would have been more accurate to say "Such will get God's wrath and be cast into the Lake of Fire." But that's not what he said because he was making a different point specifically about the Kingdom...which unbelievers have nothing to do with.
Only believers do.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Yep, the "reward of the inheritance, for you serve..."
We see this all throughout scripture.
Matthew 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
There are rewards for our service, and JOY is right up there at the top.
Philippians 4:1 Therefore, my brethren dearly beloved and longed for, my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved.
1 Thessalonians 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?
1 Thessalonians 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?
musterion
Well-known member
"Christ in us...the hope of glory." Paul told the Colossians that that was the hope they must not lose hold of or be defrauded of. Salvation is secure but much else we can have eternally is at stake.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Hmmm....good point, and worthy of a deeper look. :thumb:
Wick Stick
Well-known member
There are historically 4 views.
The Ransom Theory
Christus Victor
The Satisfaction Theory
The Penal Substitution Theory
In the former two theories, God isn't angry at mankind, and never was. The devil enslaved mankind, and the work of the cross either (a) paid the devil a ransom, thus freeing mankind, or (b) defeated the devil, freeing his hostages in the process.
In the satisfaction theory, God is angry with mankind because of sin, and Christ's death appeases God.
In the penal substitution theory, God isn't necessarily angry with mankind, but His character demands that he vindicate the just and punish the guilty. In this case, Christ's death allows/allowed God to satisfy the demands of His nature, without destroying mankind.
All 4 theories can be supported from Scripture, often from the same verses.
The Ransom Theory and Christus Victor are both ancient views of the church, which go back practically to the time of the apostles.
The Satisfaction Theory was crafted by St Anselm of Canterbury in the 11th/12th century, largely to combat the apostatizing of those who believed that Christ had failed to return 1000 years later, as promised by the book of Revelation.
The Penal Substitution Theory is part of Reformed Theology, and is therefore primarily concerned with just how wrong the Catholic church can be.
Nope - the kingdom: eternal life, is...the issue.
Specifically, the conduct of the possessor of said inheritance: of eternal life; in contrast to the conduct of the lost.
Acts 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Said light? The love of God for us in His Son, by the Cross...
Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
In contrast...
1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
The bought with a price is the only reward he mentions there, by the way - the reward of eternal life.
It's basically...
Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
At the same time, he no more goes into the reward of said inheritance there, than he does in Romans 6.
And Corinthians is based on the doctrine later laid out in more detail, in Romans.
"The reward of the inheritance" (the issue of rewards) is an issue different from the issue of "inherit the kingdom" (the issue of eternal life).
_____________
Note:
Corinthians is "reproof" of behavior not in line with the "doctrine" or instruction in righteousness" (2 Tim. 3:16,17) merely laid out in more detail, later in Romans.
Just as Galatians (also written way before Romans) is "correction" of belief not in line with the "doctrine" or instruction in righteousness" (2 Tim. 3:16,17) later laid out in more detail, in Romans.
(As in Romans itself; evident throughout both Galatians and the two Corinthians Epistles, is that Paul had long taught and preached much of the basic material in Romans and Ephesians, long before he wrote either of those two later writings).
Rom. 5:8
God's Truth
New member
The reward is eternal life.
Eternal life is a gift, not a reward.
Depends on where and how the word "reward" is found being used.
Genesis 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
Isaiah 62:11 Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
God's Truth
New member
The gift is the inheritance.
The inheritance is only given to children.
No one is a child unless they become one.
No one becomes a child unless chosen by God.
God only chooses those who obey Him.
God's Truth
New member
The inheritance is eternal life.
Matthew 19:29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.
Luke 10:25[ The Parable of the Good Samaritan ] On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
musterion
Well-known member
Do you really believe the Corinthians were being deceived into thinking unbelievers could inherit the Kingdom? No.
Were many of those very sins being practiced in the Corinthian church? Yes.
musterion
Well-known member
Can believers practice unrighteousness?
Paul:
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin:
Peter:
And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
Paul:
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin:
Peter:
And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
