ECT Grace: God isn't mad at sin, or just isn't doing anything about it at the moment?
- Thread starter musterion
- Start date
:chuckle:
Salvation is not amnesty or just mere forgiveness it required payment and that payment is now available to us.
Human beings are creatures that are in need of unconditional and all accepting love. But we also have a judicial need that we cannot pay over time. That is why God did what He did by paying our debt for us on the cross. But we have to be connected to God before that debt can be accredited on our behalf, we must accept the free gift and repent from our thinking about our situation, acknowledging our need for Messiah to pay our debt for us and if we do we are no longer liable to God no longer guilty and can walk out as free human beings.
Until one comes to God in Christ the wrath of God abides upon them because of sin.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
glorydaz
Well-known member
Odd to see a silver sock. Er, I mean "newby". :chuckle:
The wrath due us in the body for the deeds done in the body will be poured out upon us, unless we are saved through the Church's indulgence. This is why Christians suffer in this life, and this is also what purgatory is all about. The wrath due our soul, eternally, is paid for by Christ's blood, 1st Corinthians 15:3 (KJV). For those who believe that He is risen (Ro10:9KJV).
Right Divider
Body part
:nono:
musterion
Well-known member
The logic is, anything bad that happens is God punishing the Christian for his sin.
So why did Christ die again?
The distinction is between the deeds done in this old body, by this old body, and as this old body, and the penalties and consequences and wrath due this body for those deeds. Temporal compared with eternal punishment. The Lord died for the latter, and the Church can and does grant indulgences for the former. Indulgences were never about eternal suffering, but only temporal, and those are they endured in the purifying fire of purgatory.
glorydaz
Well-known member
So you're saying "purgatory" is actually our suffering here in this life?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Ha, the more I behave, the more I suffer. Being conformed into His image is no small thing.
'Church says it can be, yes, by implication; purgatory can be completed in this life, so it must be possible that it can occur in this life also then.
glorydaz
Well-known member
The question should be, "What does the Bible say?"
It says after death comes the judgment.
Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Purgatory is bad. Not is this life, but a waiting room of pain where the sinner morns his sins, This is where the indulgences come in, so many passes from pope, less time you serve, ,,,,,,,,, no good
The Bible, Paul, says, "we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." 2nd Corinthians 5:10 (KJV)
We're punished when we do bad. The only people who avoid punishment do it temporarily, and like Mr. Weinstein, when it catches up with you, you'd wish you just got punished right away, so you could have stopped, and endure a far lighter punishment. I don't see a conflict between Heb9:27KJV and 2Co5:10KJV. It seems like purgatory is part of the hereafter in these scriptures, is how I see it. I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining myself to you. And you can argue back.
I love purgatory. :idunno:
glorydaz
Well-known member
The Bible, Paul, says, "we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." 2nd Corinthians 5:10 (KJV)
We're punished when we do bad. The only people who avoid punishment do it temporarily, and like Mr. Weinstein, when it catches up with you, you'd wish you just got punished right away, so you could have stopped, and endure a far lighter punishment. I don't see a conflict between Heb9:27KJV and 2Co5:10KJV. It seems like purgatory is part of the hereafter in these scriptures, is how I see it. I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining myself to you. And you can argue back.
Well, here we see the basic separation.
John 5:28-30
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
And this Judgment seat of Christ where we receive rewards or loss of rewards.
2 Cor. 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
That, I believe, is what Paul describes here. This is not a process, but a fire...a refining fire that takes place on the Day of the Lord. The gold, silver, etc result in rewards, and the hay and stubble result in LOSS OF REWARDS. Still and all, it's the resurrection unto life...not damnation.
1 Cor. 3:11-15 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
glorydaz
Well-known member
The Judgment Seat of Christ
http://graceambassadors.com/books/romans/the-judgment-seat-of-christ
Rom. 5:8
http://graceambassadors.com/books/romans/the-judgment-seat-of-christ
Rom. 5:8
I'm reminded of a Roman Catholic I once knew many years ago, who once lamented "how weary" she had "grown over the years, having to pay up year after year" in her "hoping it might be enough to get" her "husband out of purgatory..."
As then, so now - the following passage came to mind...
Matthew 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Rom. 5:8