ECT God Made Mankind Upright and That Contradicts the Theory of Original Sin

[john w]

At the time a person sins then that person can be described as a child of wrath. Even John Calvin said that "Paul never could have said that all are by nature the children of wrath...it is obvious that the nature there referred to is not nature such as God created."

According to little johnnie's ideas if an infant dies he is headed to hell and he will be there for eternity even though that infant is as innocent as the day is long.

Sonny boy really doesn't know or care to know the righteous God who would never do such a thing.

Wrong, you moron-by nature, you confused old man. That is our nature, because of our daddy.An apple tree produces apples, by nature.


Sins have their roots in sin, the Adamic source, in the heart that influences the intellect and will and ultimately finds its expression through the body when we follow though with the desire. Survey Matthew 15:19-20 KJV, Luke 6:45 KJV, Hebrews 3:12 KJV, James1:14-15 KJV......................... The sin nature is the basis for sins/transgressions, and it is not a single act, but a process, a cancer, that spreads, having its beginning in the Jeremiah 17:9 desperately wicked heart, from birth, are that begins in our heart. It's called heart disease, the symptoms of the sin nature.


Why don't you believe the scriptures, kid?

The kid: An apple tree/person becomes an apple tree/sinner, when it produces apples/sins.


Made up.

"....but every man a liar;"-Romans 3:4 KJV

We lie, because we are liars.

The Kid: We become liars, when we lie.

Why should we believe you, instead of Paul?



And the punk spams his humanism argument, " the righteous God who would never do such a thing," the same satanic humanism trash atheists employ to diss the concept of hell

You: I do not see why O, "god," you think that there is nothing wrong with you imputing Adam's sin to an innocent infant and as a result that infant is spiritually dead. And then if that infant dies physically before he can be born again spiritually then he will go to hell for ever!!!!! What I don't understand, I will not believe. That's not fair!!!!

An atheist:I do not see why O, "god," you think that there is nothing wrong with you consigning people to to hell for ever!!!!! That's not fair!!!!What I do not understand, I will not believe!!!! Thus, there is no hell!!!!

There is no hell, as the righteous God who would never do such a thing!!!

We are not born in Adam's fallen status!!!! We do not have his DNA!!!! We are born in the image of God, Adam, pre-fall, having the identical sinlessness of the Saviour!!!!We all had a conception, by the Holy Spirit, not Adam's progeny!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You deceitful, lying clown.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The Theory of Original Sin Makes No Sense

The Theory of Original Sin Makes No Sense

From the Scriptures we know that the LORD God loves the world (Jn.3:16) and that He doesn't want anyone to perish (2 Pet.3:9). However, if the theory of Original Sin is correct then the LORD set up a system which practically guarantees that no one will be saved. According to the Federal Headship theory Adam was mankind's representative by divine appointment. And once he sinned, his corrupted nature as well as the guilt of his sin was conveyed to all of his posterity. As a result, all people emerge from the womb "made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil" (Westminster Confession of Faith, 6/4).

The LORD had already dealt with Lucifer who had free will so He certainly knew the dangers associated with His creatures and free will. And even with that knowledge, according to theory, the LORD set up a system whereby if Adam exercised his free will and ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil then all people emerge from the womb wholly inclined to all evil. If the LORD actually set up such a system then practically no one will come to the light of the gospel according to what is written here:

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (Jn.3:17-21).​

According to the theory of Original Sin the LORD set up a system and according to that system when Adam sinned then as a result all people emerge from the womb wholly inclined to all evil. And because of their evil deeds they hate the word of God and do not believe it either. I just can't believe that the Lord would set up such a system because that system practically ensures that no one will believe and that all will perish even though the LORD does not want any to perish.

Does anyone want to defend this ridiculous theory?

 

[Childlike]

I will have a go.

The nature of original sin is not one of disobedience, or evil. Original sin was the eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Right and wrong if you will. That act provided Adam and Eve with the tools to form Judgement and if one reads the immediate aftermath of the event one can see that they are consumed by their judgement to the point of insanity.

Jesus in his efforts to save us told us on many occasions that we must not judge. A difficult, bordering on impossible task but a necessary one for our salvation. Probably the most necessary action mankind must take? Almost 2000 years later and still waiting for the second coming, it might just be worth a shot.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I will have a go.

The nature of original sin is not one of disobedience, or evil. Original sin was the eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Right and wrong if you will. That act provided Adam and Eve with the tools to form Judgement and if one reads the immediate aftermath of the event one can see that they are consumed by their judgement to the point of insanity.

If the theory of Original Sin is correct then the LORD set up a system which results in all people entering the world spiritually dead and with a corrupt nature and wholly inclined to all evil.

Therefore, only the LORD can be held responsibile for all the evil in the world. However, that is not possible because in Him there is no darkness at all (1 Jn.1:5).

 

[Sherman]

[MENTION=10]Jerry Shugart[/MENTION] This seems to be a topic about which your are passionate, I have merged them all into a single thread. Please don't keep opening threads on the same thing. It waters down the message you are trying to convey. You will attract more participants and readership if you keep it to a single well run thread. I can also manage it better by taking off people that derail it.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I can also manage it better by taking off people that derail it.

Thanks, I appreciate that.

 

[Childlike]

If the theory of Original Sin is correct then the LORD set up a system which results in all people entering the world spiritually dead and with a corrupt nature and wholly inclined to all evil.

Therefore, only the LORD can be held responsibile for all the evil in the world. However, that is not possible because in Him there is no darkness at all (1 Jn.1:5).

On any path there is at least two directions available to travel. Choosing the wrong direction is of little consequence if upon realising the error one simply turns around.

Adam and Eve were in error to ignore God's earnest warning about the fruit as we are in error ignoring the advice of Jesus on the same topic. Turn around, warn your children, make a start toward correcting the error.

Good luck.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Adam and Eve were in error to ignore God's earnest warning about the fruit as we are in error ignoring the advice of Jesus on the same topic.

I am not sure what you are making reference to when you used the words "the same topic."

 

[Childlike]

I am not sure what you are making reference to when you used the words "the same topic."

Judgement

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Judgement

There is no evidence that anyone emerges from the womb with a corrupted nature or that anyone receives the same judgment which Adam suffered. In fact, the Scriptural evidence shows that all people are made upright:

"So I turned my mind to understand, to investigate and to search out wisdom and the scheme of things and to understand the stupidity of wickedness and the madness of folly. I find more bitter than death the woman who is a snare, whose heart is a trap and whose hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but the sinner she will ensnare. 'Look,' says the Teacher, 'this is what I have discovered: Adding one thing to another to discover the scheme of things--while I was still searching but not finding--I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all. This only have I found: God created mankind upright, but they have gone in search of many schemes'" (Eccl.7:25-29).​

 

[ttruscott]

So in the new heavens and new earth (wherein dwelleth righteousness), men will be just as likely to (freely) stray from the truth?

No sir; I contend that our rebirth reinstates our free will and then, to overcome our memories of the pleasures and profits of sin, we are trained in righteousness until we will never choose evil again for any reason: Heb 12:5-11! Why would someone choose to go through all that sin has put us through in our earthly life again? What could induce us to go against our experiential knowledge?

People will never sin in heaven because they are in love with everyone else in heaven and their commitment to love and holiness is completely perfect, they WILL never sin though they have a free will and the ability to do so.

 

[ttruscott]

So in the new heavens and new earth (wherein dwelleth righteousness), men will be just as likely to (freely) stray from the truth?

In the new heavens and new earth the truth is known to all all the time and everyone is in a perfect communion of thought and loving emotion telepathically between every person including GOD in heaven all the time. Every one one will know the right thing and no one will ever choose to stray.

It is our sinfulness here on earth that stops us from experiencing this right now.

 

[ttruscott]

The scripture says that all are born with a sin nature.

No, it doesn't. It is inferred by those with a bent (for) theology that do not know GOD at all, from what they think a verse implies BUT IT IS NOT WRITTEN!

 

[ttruscott]

The LORD makes all people and according to your theory all people are born with a sin nature. Therefore, the LORD must be responsible for all the wickedness upon the face of the earth since the beginning of time.

And you actually believe that theory!

Come on, sonny boy. I taught you better than that.

While I do agree with you in this topic, I forget how you then think that Jacob and Esau could have been trying to crush each other to pieces, ie, to murder (a sin most foul) each other, in the womb over the rights of the first born!?

 

[ttruscott]

"...the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds...unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil" (Ro.2:5-6,8-9).​

The God I worship would never do that because in Him there is no darkness at all (1 Jn.1:5).

Hmmm, I thought you were a Calvinist who believes we inherit a sin nature from Adam; ie,by HIS fiat which is denied by your quote that HE is light in whom is no darkness at all to come out from HIM no more than a spring of life giving water can suddenly give forth poison, 1 Jn.1:5 ​Sorry...

 

[john w]

No, it doesn't. It is inferred by those with a bent (for) theology that do not know GOD at all, from what they think a verse implies BUT IT IS NOT WRITTEN!

Yes it, does. "No sin nature" is spammed by those with a bent (for) theology that do not know GOD at all, from what they think a verse implies BUT IT IS NOT WRITTEN!


Fun! Check.

Can I play with your crayons?

Took you that long to GOOG that worn out sound byte? Weighty.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

While I do agree with you in this topic, I forget how you then think that Jacob and Esau could have been trying to crush each other to pieces, ie, to murder (a sin most foul) each other, in the womb over the rights of the first born!?

Before they were born neither did anything which was good or evil:

"For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth" (Ro.9:11).​

 

[Tambora]

Fun! Check.

Can I play with your crayons?

ROFL!
I just love this place!

The great John W. wolf annihilator.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

"No sin nature" is spammed by those with a bent (for) theology that do not know GOD at all, from what they think a verse implies BUT IT IS NOT WRITTEN!

Do you not believe that the LORD God made mankind upright?

 

[john w]

Do you not believe that the LORD God made mankind upright?

Already answered. If I can show you my exact post, will you leave TOL?

I thought so, as you know that I answered, as you pull that deceptive "debating" tactic on every thread, with every TOL member, acting like others never answer your questions, even though they have been addressed, then, hoping that everyone did not see your questions being addressed, ask them again, and,cry, "We see, it is evident, clearly, there can be no doubt whatsoever(most of TOL membership)has no answers...............blah blah blah...." That is your shtick on TOL. And that explains why this duplicate thread is largely ignored by the TOL membership, as it is standard fare, as you are beginning to bore us.