glorydaz
Well-known member
This is really not that difficult. Try to stay focused.
Who do those "brethren" preach this word of faith to?
ECT glorydaz says that Romans is Written to Unbelievers
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
This is really not that difficult. Try to stay focused.
Who do those "brethren" preach this word of faith to?
Do you even realize what you're claiming?
You do know there were no chapters in the original epistle to the Romans? It was one letter.
Yet, somehow you think Paul wrote an epistle to believers in Rome, then about two-thirds of the way into his epistle, the Apostle Paul starts addressing unbelievers.
Please re-read chp 10
Unbelievers.
In Romans 10, Paul quotes Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Psalm, Isaiah, and Joel.
Why would Paul quote all these OT passages to unbelievers?
glorydaz
Well-known member
I rest my case.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Romans is written to people who were "called to be saints"
Romans 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Their faith was spoken of throughout the whole world
Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
I believe their faith was in the gospel of God (Romans 1:1-4 KJV), which is the WHO of Jesus Christ and God raising Him from the dead.
Paul writes that he longed to see them that he may impart unto them "some spiritual gift", to the end they may be established;
Romans 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
that is, that he would be comforted together by the "mutual faith" both of him and them
Romans 1:12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
Paul's "my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, but now is made manifest,..." is that "some spiritual gift" that would establish them!
Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
That's why Paul wrote:
Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
So, the Romans were believers, but not stablished in the faith/into the Body by the preaching of the cross. I've no doubt that they became members of the Body of Christ as they were of the remnant according to the election of grace at that present time which God foreknew (Romans 11:1-6 KJV, Romans 8:28-30 KJV).
They had never before heard Paul's gospel or the letter makes no sense.
You're dead wrong.
(Rom 10:8) But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim:
If Paul was addressing unbelievers, why would Paul ask unbelievers "what does it say?"
Paul then quotes Deut 30:14
How would unbelievers know what Deuteronomy 30:14 says?
Grammatically incorrect.
The fact that you have to throw the rules of grammar out the window in order to try to make your theory work is very telling.
In the KJV, Paul said "my Lord" just one time less than he said "my gospel".
Are there two Lords heir?
glorydaz
Well-known member
I just asked you who the message (word of faith) was preached to and you said unbelievers. That's what I have been saying all along. Now, you can't agree with me and then tell me I'm dead wrong. Are you and Jerry related by chance?
........we preach;
TO unbelievers.
Who is the "thou", "thy", "thine", "thou"....who will be saved if they believe? Jerry says they are believers.
Romans 10:9-10
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Paul calls it "my gospel" because it was given by direct revelation to him of the risen, ascended, glorified Lord Jesus Christ!
Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Galatians 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
It was before a mystery and the King James Bible tells us why
1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Believe it!
heir
TOL Subscriber
I thought you weren't here to teach anyone?
You remind me of a silly woman with all of your silly questions.
Ephesians 4:5 KJV
Notice that Paul, in his list of ones, never wrote "one gospel" like tetty bear would like it to read. It's because there are MANY gospels in the Bible! It's your job to find what is the gospel of YOUR salvation. What is it, tetty?
Which doesn't mean he was the only one it was given to.
Paul says "my Lord"
Somehow you think that the things Jesus told Peter in person, were not told to Paul by direct revelation and vice versa.
Did Christians not know of this mystery before 1611?
Too bad for you, that you don't believe the following:
(2 Peter 3:15 KJV) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
heir
TOL Subscriber
The dispensation of the gospel was committed unto Paul!
1 Corinthians 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
Believe it, silly man!
I'm not.
I'm here to learn.
One gospel
(Gal 1:9 KJV) As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Hypothetically, if there was another gospel as you claim (the one Peter allegedly preached), then the KJV wouldn't use the phrase "any other gospel".
"any other gospel" would rule out your "kingdom gospel"
Yes, Paul preached the gospel.
"Dispensation" is not a time period.
If it is, then "God" is a time period
(Col 1:25 KJV) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
In the above, is "God" a time period?
I believe exactly what it says heir.
heir
TOL Subscriber
As shown, the Romans had a faith. The one Paul zeros in on was "called a Jew" and restest in the law.
Romans 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
IOW: proselyte,
Romans 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
The Romans were Gentiles that were partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
And that, mind you, before being established into the BoC by Paul's gospel.
Something For Everyone - For ALL HAVE Sinned...
Something For Everyone - For ALL HAVE Sinned...
The following is for those with ears to hear; personal agendas absent from their heart; that Christ might be all in all.
Those parts throughout Romans written to believers with regard to how the lost ended up lost, have remained lost, as well as how the saved have ended up saved...those parts of Romans as to that, end up written to, for, and about unbelievers; as to how they too can get out of Adam and into Christ.
For, in Romans you have that other aspect of what Paul relates is his intent in writing Romans to begin with. This aspect below.
Romans 1:
13. Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
14. I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
15. So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of
men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Romans 2:
1. Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
14. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15. Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;]
16. In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Verse 16; written to the saved, is not about them.
Rather; about the lost, and thus, for them and to them - "Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art..."
Romans 3:
19. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22. Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24. Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26. To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
We can show the lost those passages - about them, and thus, written for them, and to them - "for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."
Something For Everyone - For ALL HAVE Sinned...
The following is for those with ears to hear; personal agendas absent from their heart; that Christ might be all in all.
Those parts throughout Romans written to believers with regard to how the lost ended up lost, have remained lost, as well as how the saved have ended up saved...those parts of Romans as to that, end up written to, for, and about unbelievers; as to how they too can get out of Adam and into Christ.
For, in Romans you have that other aspect of what Paul relates is his intent in writing Romans to begin with. This aspect below.
Romans 1:
13. Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
14. I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
15. So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of
men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Romans 2:
1. Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
14. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15. Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;]
16. In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Verse 16; written to the saved, is not about them.
Rather; about the lost, and thus, for them and to them - "Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art..."
Romans 3:
19. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22. Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24. Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26. To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
We can show the lost those passages - about them, and thus, written for them, and to them - "for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."
Are you claiming the Romans that Paul wrote his epistle to were Gentile proselytes who had a great faith that was reported all over the world, but their faith was Judaism?
If correct, and your two gospel theory is correct, it would mean that these Roman Gentile proselytes had never converted to the "kingdom gospel" because it had never been preached to them, but (lucky for them) they got to hear the gospel Paul was preaching (Body gospel), and therefore were converted into the BOC?
Is that what your saying?
heir
TOL Subscriber
A dispensation of the gospel was committed unto Paul (1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV). And which "the gospel" did Paul preach as the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth according to tetty bear? Which "the gospel" which was preached of Paul is not after man, but by revelation of Jesus Christ? Which gospel was the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, but now is made manifest,..."? Why was it before kept a mystery? Why didn't Peter preach it at Pentecost? Why didn't Peter preach it as the power of God unto salation to every one that believeth?
No, it's not although time is certainly involved in the dispensation of the gospel and the dispensation of the grace of God. It's no longer a time of "time past" nor is it the "ages to come", but the "but now".
The "dispensation of God" which was given to Paul to us is "to fulfil the word of God", you silly man.
As with your Partial Preterist school, Tel; there are some differences in understanding on some things between those who hold to Mid-Acts Dispensationalism.
Its partly due to difference in study approach.
In this, the understanding of some within Mid-Acts is that Romans 2:17's "called a Jew," is a reference to proselytes.
Not all within Mid-Acts hold to that, though.
And the understanding of those who do, also is that the Mystery mentioned in Romans 16, is not the Mystery mentioned in Ephesians.
This is partly due, among other reasons, to what they take Romans 16:26's "scriptures of the prophets" to mean.
As with your school Tel; where different groups within your school will hold to a different understanding concerning one or another passage; that passage and others, have several, different views within Mid-Acts.
I find it a very telling sign of a small person when they lose an argument and take it to another thread with equivocation. You don't even bother pointing to the actual thread but in any event, Paul says in Rom 1:7 who he was writing to. That is not the same as who it can or is applicable to. Rom 10:9-11 is directed at who Jerry?
Apparently you don't believe it is applicable to unbelievers, so tell me, who was the Gospel of John written to and who was it applicable to?
Apparently you don't believe it is applicable to unbelievers, so tell me, who was the Gospel of John written to and who was it applicable to?