ECT glorydaz says that Romans is Written to Unbelievers

[tetelestai]

I believe their faith was in the gospel of God (Romans 1:1-4 KJV), which is the WHO of Jesus Christ and God raising Him from the dead.

Isn't that what you call the "kingdom gospel"?

According to you, only Christ Jesus and the 12 (and Paul at certain times) preached the "kingdom gospel".

Let's look at one of your posts:

the gospel of God highlighted above is: Romans 1:1-4 KJV. It is the WHO of Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead. Both Peter and Paul preached the gospel of God :duh:.

According to Peter to all the house of Israel this is why Christ was raised from the dead (Acts 2:30 KJV).

According to Paul to the Body of Christ this is why Christ was raised from the dead (Romans 4:25 KJV).

That's DIFFERENT!

Peter NEVER preached the gospel of Christ in Acts 2,3,4,5,...10 as the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth!

The gospel of Christ is more than the WHO of Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead (the gospel of God)! The gospel of Christ is the WHY of the cross/ the WHAT Christ died for: "that Christ died for our sins" (1 Corinthians 15: 1-4 KJV) is a very important element in the gospel of Christ! The gospel of Christ is the gospel which Paul received and was given by revelation of Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:11-12 KJV). It was before a mystery/kept secret since the world began prior to that and the Bible tells us why (Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV).

There is more than one gospel in the Bible!

In the above, you lay out your "two gospels"

However, in this thread, you are now claiming that Roman Proselytes first had the "kingdom gospel" preached to them, but then received Paul's "Body gospel" afterwards, and subsequently became believers in the Body of Christ.

I've no doubt that they became members of the Body of Christ

Ok, if these alleged "kingdom believers" became "Body believers", then why couldn't any of the other "kingdom believers" become "Body believers"?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Is that what your saying?

Did you just scold heir for posting something grammatically incorrect?
I know, spelling isn't "grammer".

 

[User Name]

I know, spelling isn't "grammer".

When someone types "your" when they meant "you're," isn't that both a speling and a grammer error?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

No, I wasn't "unable" to. I told you I didn't know what you were looking for by asking for my "interpretation". I figured you were trying to trap me, so I told you I didn't know what you were expecting.

I wanted you to give me your interpretation of the verse and you didn't . Now you are just making up excuses why you didn't.

I wanted to see if you could understand that this verse is teaching that ALL who believed receive everlasting life, including the Jews who lived under the law:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

It says "whosoever" believes has everlasting life and the Jewish believers who lived under the law cannot be excluded from "whosoever."

So do you think that the Jewish believers received everlasting life by their faith apart from works?

 

[heir]

One gospel

made up term

When Paul lists several ones it does NOT include a "one gospel". What is the gospel of YOUR salvation, prete tetty?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I find it a very telling sign of a small person when they lose an argument and take it to another thread with equivocation.

I didn't lose an argument. Or perhaps you think that the tenth chapter of the epistle to the Romans was addressed to unbelievers?

Paul does speak of unbelievers in that chapter but it is evident that he is not addressing them:

"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" (Ro.10:14).​

Does that sound like Paul is addressing unbelievers there?

 

[tetelestai]

Did you just scold heir for posting something grammatically incorrect?

Yes.

"Paul's, my gospel" is grammatically incorrect.

The fact that you guys have to use the phrase "Paul's, my gospel" to advocate your two gospel theory is very telling

I know, spelling isn't "grammer".

"your" vs. "you're" is a spelling error.

I don't type "your" on purpose when it should be "you're"

You guys on purpose type "Paul's, my gospel"

 

[tetelestai]

When someone types "your" when they meant "you're," isn't that both a speling and a grammer error?

Technically yes, but reality wise, it's just a spelling error.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

The fact that you guys have to use the phrase "Paul's, my gospel" to advocate your two gospel theory is very telling

Can we say, "The gospel which Paul called 'my gospel' "?

Is this phrase approved?

 

[tetelestai]

Can we say, "The gospel which Paul called 'my gospel' "?

Yes, but while your at it, why don't you mention the Lord who Paul called "my Lord"?

In the KJV Paul uses the phrase "my gospel" 3 times, and uses the phrase "my Lord" 2 times.

Are there two different Lords? Was Paul's Lord different than Peter's Lord?

If no, then why are there two different gospels?

 

[heir]

Isn't that what you call the "kingdom gospel"?

Romans 1:1-4 KJV is the gospel of God just like it says!

You really need to stop your "MAD" hunt and study the KJ Bible!

Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Romans 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

According to you, only Christ Jesus and the 12 (and Paul at certain times) preached the "kingdom gospel".

The gospel of the kingdom:

Matthew 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.


Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

The gospel of the kingdom does not include Christ dying nor God raising Him from the dead. And it certainly does not testify the good news of the WHY of the cross. You have to go to Paul for that!

 

[tetelestai]

made up term

When Paul lists several ones it does NOT include a "one gospel". What is the gospel of YOUR salvation, prete tetty?

I addressed this in the rest of my post, which you ignored:

(Gal 1:9 KJV) As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Hypothetically, if there was another gospel as you claim (the one Peter allegedly preached), then the KJV wouldn't use the phrase "any other gospel".

"any other gospel" would rule out your "kingdom gospel"

 

[heir]

I addressed this in the rest of my post, which you ignored:

What is the gospel of YOUR salvation? You can't tell me or anyone else WHAT IT is? How sad.

 

[tetelestai]

The gospel of the kingdom does not include Christ dying nor God raising Him from the dead. And it certainly does not testify the good news of the WHY of the cross. You have to go to Paul for that!

Ok, I forgot you have three gospels?

1) Gospel of the kingdom

2) Gospel of God

3) Gospel of Christ

So, you're claiming the Gentile Roman Proselytes had the Gospel of God (#2 on your list) preached to them by someone other than Paul, then had the Gospel of Christ (#3) preached to them by Paul?

If so, what kind of Christians were these Gentile Roman Proselytes after they believed the Gospel of God (#2), but before becoming Body Believers after believing the Gospel of Christ (#3)

 

[tetelestai]

What is the gospel of YOUR salvation?

The gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[heir]

Ok, I forgot you have three gospels?

1) Gospel of the kingdom

2) Gospel of God

2) Gospel of Christ

Keep studying. There are more than three gospels in the Bible

So, you're claiming the Gentile Roman Proselytes had the Gospel of God (#2 on your list) preached to them by someone other than Paul, then had the Gospel of Christ (#3) preached to them by Paul?

My list? Can't you study to see that the Romans had a faith (Romans 1:1-4 KJV) and yet a need to be established by "some spiritual gift" (Romans 1:11 KJV) that turns out to be Paul's "my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, but now is made manifest,..." (Romans 16:25-27 KV)?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

called to be saints, jerry -

Are you not aware that the Apostle Paul employed the word "saints" when speaking of Christians?:

"But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints" (Ro.15:25).​

"Salute Philologus, and Julia, Nereus, and his sister, and Olympas, and all the saints which are with them" (Ro.16:15).​

Christians are not "called to be saints" but instead are already called saints:

"to all that are in Rome, beloved of God, called saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ" (Ro.1:7; DBY).​

Despite this glorydaz said the following:

You only show your ignorance when you make the claim that everyone being addressed is a believer. "All that be in Rome". That means anyone who hears the letter being read.​

As usual glorydaz manipulates what is said and leaves out the part which describes who it is in Rome who is being addressed:

"to all that are in Rome, beloved of God, called saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ" (Ro.1:7; DBY).​

That is just one example that shows that glorydaz plays it fast and loose with the Scriptures.

 

[tetelestai]

Keep studying. There are more than three gospels in the Bible

How many do you claim there were since John the Baptist?

Can't you study to see that the Romans had a faith

Yes, I know that.

They were believers (Christians)

You're the one who divides believers into two groups "kingdom" and "body"

So, I'm asking you which one of your groups were the Gentile Roman Proselytes in before they heard "Paul's, my gospel"?

 

[heir]

If so, what kind of Christians were these Gentile Roman Proselytes after they believed the Gospel of God (#2), but before becoming Body Believers after believing the Gospel of Christ (#3)

It appears they were in trouble as they were resting in the law (Romans 2:17 KJV) and Israel had fallen...

Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Romans 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Romans 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

Romans 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Romans 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

They needed to be established! They needed to continue in God's goodness. I believe this was offered to them in the form of Paul's gospel (Romans 16:25-27 KJV)!

 

[heir]

So, I'm asking you which one of your groups were the Gentile Roman Proselytes in before they heard "Paul's, my gospel"?

It's possible that they were present the day of Pentecost. I'm still studying that.

Acts 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

Acts 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,