ECT Get On the Road To Emmaus With Cleopas And His Friend Again
- Thread starter northwye
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God's Truth
New member
The old testament/covenant was based on the ceremonial/purification law, it was about those who are descendants of Abraham.
They were the ones with God and His covenant.
Now the new law and new covenant is here and those who were called children of God were cut off. Not all were cut off, just those who did not meet the requirements of the new covenant.
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Right Divider
Body part
Quit trying your childish diversions.... I'm not falling for it.
If the kingdom of God was HELD by UNBELIEVING Pharisees as Jesus said that it was in Matthew 21:43 KJV, then how can the kingdom of God be what you claimed that it was (inside of the hearts and minds of saved people)?
Interplanner
Well-known member
I think you may be on to an interesting question RD, but aren't the Pharisees by nature void of light, truth, the Spirit (Mt 23)? Somehow, though, they were considered by Mt 21's vineyard parable to be its employees up to the time of Christ.
Yep.
It's not two different kingdoms -- take away one kingdom and replace it with another kingdom.
It is the exact same kingdom (kingdom of GOD) that included both the unbelievers and believers of Israel.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Mistaken on both counts:
it had to be believers who produced fruit and
it was open to non Jews, Gal 5:21.
Notice that the fruit theme is right there, wow.
You doctrine is bare naked 2P2P and is a fraud.
Nope.
The verse clearly says that the kingdom of GOD would be taken from them .
'them' obviously includes the unbelieving Pharisees.
Matthew 21:43 KJV
(43) Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
We also know this from just 2 verses previous describing the kingdom of GOD as GOD's vineyard.
Matthew 21:41 KJV
(41) They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
God's Truth
New member
It wasn't meant just for non Jews, for there were Jews already in the body of Christ.
Interplanner
Well-known member
but he says an 'ethne' would be created. Not a state, but a people. That's Christians. You are hopelessly trying to preserve 2P2P where it does not belong.
In my 50 years of listening, you are the first person to 'take away' the kingdom of God from believers. He did, you know, want believers. Or are you schitzophrenically dividing Christ up on that as well (jew vs Christian)? You think there are single lines in the gospels just for Jews (like the elect in Mt 24) and single lines just for Christians, don't you? That way 2P2P is intact, but not the Bible.
At the end of the day, you still have to account for what Paul said in Gal 5:11 about the same kingdom.
In my 50 years of listening, you are the first person to 'take away' the kingdom of God from believers. He did, you know, want believers. Or are you schitzophrenically dividing Christ up on that as well (jew vs Christian)? You think there are single lines in the gospels just for Jews (like the elect in Mt 24) and single lines just for Christians, don't you? That way 2P2P is intact, but not the Bible.
At the end of the day, you still have to account for what Paul said in Gal 5:11 about the same kingdom.
God's Truth
New member
You keep saying I said...right, I am saying it, but I am saying what Jesus says.
Jesus says the kingdom of heaven in within.
It was at hand and was not yet within because the Holy Spirit had not yet been given.
Luke 13:28 "There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.
That is about people getting thrown out.
Read the parable about the wedding banquet:
The Parable of the Wedding Banquet
1Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: 2“The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.
4“Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’
5“But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business. 6The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. 7The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.
8“Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’ 10So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, the bad as well as the good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.
11“But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12He asked, ‘How did you get in here without wedding clothes, friend?’ The man was speechless.
13“Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
14“For many are invited, but few are chosen.”
Those scriptures are about Jews who were invited and did not come. Then all are invited, Gentiles, everyone. Out of all who do come, they will be judged. Some will be thrown out.
Some pharisees did come to Jesus and believe in him, but they were too concerned about what other men thought of them so they kept their beliefs secret. They are the ones who will be thrown out. Jesus says those do not acknowledge him before men, he will not acknowledge before God's angels.
Right Divider
Body part
So you are going to continue to claim that the kingdom of God was within the UNBELIEVING Pharisees?
Your "understanding" is misunderstanding.
God's Truth
New member
Notice that you do not have the truth because you misstate what I say and then you resort to insults, slander.
If you have the truth then relax and discuss the scriptures with me without you, who is nothing, try to condemn me to hell. You know you cannot, right?
God's Truth
New member
I will try again to explain it to you.
The Jews were God's children.
The Jews were descendants/blood relatives of Abraham.
Abraham was given the promise that his blood relatives would be God's children.
That is something major to tell someone.
Just think if someone told you that you and all blood related to you are special because of you, and they would be given something grand to one of your blood descendants. All your children, grandchildren, great grandchildren,the brothers and sisters and cousins, etc,they would all feel special for just being related to you.
However, they had to do some things to be called a child of God. They had to do something to enter this covenant God had with Abraham. They had to get circumcised, then later follow the rest of the ceremonial works as given to Moses.
They had to do some things so that God would continue to bless them.
They had to do the purification/ceremonial works.
The Savior Jesus Christ would be brought through the blood line of Abraham, it was promised that the Savior would be from the line of David/Abraham.
God did not like it that His children the Jews could sin, give sin offerings, yet, still be called His children.
God said there would be a new covenant where He washes/cleans people and not to those who use the blood of animals because they are related to Abraham, Moses, and David, but to those who would believe in his Son.
So what is the difference right there between the Jews and the Gentiles/the rest of humanity?
The difference is that the Jews were the chosen, the adoption to sonship, the temple and the promises.
Romans 9:4 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises.
When Jesus came, he came only for those who already belonged to God by faith, he taught this new covenant of he being the temple and people being saved by faith in him.
Many Jews believed in Jesus and they were saved and ultimately received the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit was given.
Many Jews were also cut off and hardened while Jesus walked the earth.
Will people get in who do not belong? Sure people who have faith can get in and easily. However, they are not wearing the right clothes and are thrown out. What are the right clothes? The right clothes are obedience to Jesus' teachings. That is what it means to be covered in Christ and to wear him.
Right Divider
Body part
Quit trying to CHANGE the SUBJECT.... I asked you a SIMPLE question based on a CRYSTAL CLEAR scripture about WHO was in POSSESSION of the kingdom of God as spoken by the LORD Jesus Christ.
Matt 21:43 (AKJV/PCE)
(21:43) Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Are you unable to understand that?
Scripture and YOU disagree.
Address this issue honestly or I'm putting back on my ignore list.
God's Truth
New member
The chance for the kingdom of heaven---the offer of the kingdom of heaven---it was taken from them.
God's Truth
New member
What don't you get about faith alone being dead?
Faith in what?
Faith that Jesus' blood cleans us of the sins WE REPENT OF DOING.
How to get to that place in one's life where they want to repent of sins?
They do what Jesus says and humble themselves as a little child and admit to being a sinner and repent.
After you repent of yours sins, prove yourself and do right. For things you have a hard time with, call on Jesus to help you and he will.
Again, why do you cut off the scriptures that say faith alone is dead? You might as well be a maditst with your false faith without obedience doctrine.
Seriously, you might as well be a madist, at least they are truer than you are to their beliefs.
Just like beloved57 is a hyper Calvinist who is truer to the Calvinists beliefs than other kinds of Calvinists.
You are badly mistaken. Many Jews were cut off but many were not. Jesus said when he is crucified then ALL CAN come to him to be saved---cut off Jews, all Jews, and all Gentiles and every other ethnic group and nation.
You are a violent person who is ready to condemn someone as being mentally ill and preaching falseness.
Prove I was preaching a different kingdom.
You need to show where I was preaching circumcision. You don't understand that Jesus is the circumcision of the heart and physical circumcision is no longer needed. You are so confused and I would really like to help you.
That's just you reading said "chance for" / "offer of" into that.
In the parable he relates there, in Matthew 19, the Pharisees are the husbandmen who's corruption of their responsibility as God's spiritual husbandmen, or rulers over Israel the Lord is not only condemning, but further relates said rule over Israel will be taken from them and given to a nation bringing forth the expected righteousness thereof.
And the narrative goes on to relate that the Pharisees had understood that was what He had meant.
Matthew 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: 21:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. 21:35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. 21:36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. 21:46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.
And He had already told the Twelve they would be Israel's new overseers (chapter 19).
While, in Matt. 23, He again points out the corruption of the Pharisees "in Moses' seat" or authority over Israel.
He has been talking about this issue concerning said corrupt rulers over Israel all the way back to Matthew 5, which is a sister chapter to Matthew 23.
The other issue being how that much of the rest of Israel has or has not been obeying God, but that is another issue, and is not the issue He is talking about in Matthew 19.
Their fallen nation's replacement will be with this "nation" here...which is what Matthew 28's "Go ye therefore" is actually all about...
Isaiah 66:20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. 66:21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD. 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Verse 23 is Isaiah 2 and is after Israel is re-gathered from the four corners of the Earth first.
But none of that aspect is what He is talking about in Matthew 19.
In Matthew 19, was informing Israel's corrupt spiritual rulers: the Pharisees; that He would be replacing them.
With whom would He be replacing them?
Matthew 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Which is what these "mansions" or "chambers" occupied by those in authority over Israel within the Father's House, will be about...
John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
A prior example of those "mansions" or chambers within the Father's House for those in spiritual authority over Israel, is this here...
Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
1:8 And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course, 1:9 According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord. 1:10 And the whole multitude of the people were praying without at the time of incense.
These things differ from one another...
Nevertheless, GT, Romans 5:8 towards you.
Interplanner
Well-known member
The members identities are getting totally mixed up here. My comments were for Tambora, and then you started sounding like her.
Everything in my last post was for Tam to answer.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Neither did Abraham. Nor did anyone else.
glorydaz
Well-known member
God's UNtruth doesn't care. She answers whether people want her to or not. :idunno: