ECT Get On the Road To Emmaus With Cleopas And His Friend Again
- Thread starter northwye
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glorydaz
Well-known member
It looks like it was taken away from the Jews and given to the Gentiles who would produce fruit.
I don't understand your confusion. :idunno:
glorydaz
Well-known member
So does God's Untruth, but it doesn't make them or her right. The Jews also thought they could be righteous through their own efforts...just as she does, but neither are right. That's why I call her a modern day Jew.
Romans 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Exactly!
The Lord's vineyard is the land and nation of Israel:
Isa 5:1 Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill:
Isa 5:2 And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine,
Isa 5:7 For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant:
Psa 80:8 Thou hast brought a vine[Israel] out of Egypt: thou hast cast out the heathen[nations, Canaanites,etc], and planted it.
Psa 80:9 Thou preparedst room before it, and didst cause it to take deep root, and it filled the land[of Canaan/Israel].
Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
Mat 21:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you[the then current husbandmen, Pharisees, chief priests, etc] , and given to a nation[other husbandmen] bringing forth the fruits thereof.
In all of this, the vineyard does not change.
What changes are the husbandmen which manage the vineyard.
The vineyard is always the land and nation of Israel and the Davidic Kingdom promised for that land and people.
The Lord will preserve His beloved's vineyard and Kingdom for the long haul and eventually give it to the believing remnant of Israel, which began with the 'little flock'.
Luk 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
At that time[the second coming], His people[Israel] will be willing:
Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Psa 110:2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
Psa 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power
Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
When the Lord says that He will give the kingdom to another nation, He is not saying that He will give the prophesied Davidic Messianic Kingdom to 'another nation' such as the USA, England or China, nor is He using the term 'nation' in the sense of 'nations/gentiles', nor is he referring to the Church, the BOC which is composed of people from all nations including fallen Israel.
He is simply saying that the Kingdom which was promised to Israel would be taken away from the then present management and would be given to another generation of Israelites who believed and loved GOD from the heart... acknowledging their promised Messiah, the Lord Jesus, and bringing forth, from the vineyard which GOD planted, the fruit thereof.
This is so simple.... and obvious when read in context.
Again, He is not changing the vineyard, He is changing the management of that vineyard.
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God's Truth
New member
That is where you are really going off on the wrong road.
All of the saved are going to be gathered, not just Jews.
It is about the time of the resurrection of the dead.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
You just don't get it that Jesus destroyed the dividing wall, and that he did not fail the first time he came. Now if you can accept that truth, try then to read the scriptures with that in mind.
What don't you get about no one is preferred for blood relations?
You don't get that Paul is preaching that many times.
He tries desperately to show that the Jews and Gentiles are sinners the same.
Romans 3:9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.
See John 1:13.
As for you saying Jesus died for us while we were sinners. What exactly are you trying to prove by bringing that scripture up? It proves what I have been saying.
God's Truth
New member
Do you not get that all the special days were prophecies, teaching tools,about Jesus?
Observing special days is now worthless.
Don't you believe Paul when he says that?
Yes? If yes you understand that Paul says observing special days is now worthless, why do you keep speaking of old testament scriptures without that new insight?
God's Truth
New member
You need to go back further, try Cain and Abel and Noah.
God's Truth
New member
You should learn how to consistently use the quote feature.
God's Truth
New member
Abraham had to get circumcised.
The Jews had to get circumcised.
The Gentiles were without God because they did not get circumcised.
God's Truth
New member
They did not 'think' they had to, they really did have to.
How in the world do you get that they only 'thought' they had to get circumcised?
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God's Truth
New member
Show where I said we have to get circumcised in the flesh.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Very simply: read Galatians. If this was not the issue, there is no reason for the letter to exist, nor Rom 4.
Interplanner
Well-known member
This is more ludicrous than I originally thought. while praising one non-Jewish person for his faith, Jesus explained that believers will come into the kingdom from all the directions of the compass to join Abraham.
Why are D'ists so casual about pulverizing the integrity of the Christian message?
God's Truth
New member
Since Jesus, no one had to get circumcised anymore to be a child of God. Since the temple was still standing and the pharisees controlled the temple, Jesus advised the Jews to do what the pharisees said to do.
As for the Galatians, they can teach you a lesson with your false faith alone teaching. Paul did not rebuke the Galatians for obeying Jesus, he rebuked them for thinking they had to get circumcised to justify themselves.
Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone. Getting circumcised and observing special days were old ways to get justified. Since Jesus dying on the cross, only his blood justifies. Anyone who still practices circumcision and the observance of special days to justify themselves did not believe Jesus' blood did the job.
Nowhere anywhere are we told to only believe in Jesus but don't obey him. We don't have to get circumcised anymore and observes special days, etc, but we still have to humble ourselves, repent, and call on him to help .
God's Truth
New member
Old Law
Justification before God:
Obey the commands of what to do and sins not to do
And:
Do all the ceremonial works to justify/clean yourself
Since Jesus walked the earth
Justification before God:
Obey all of Jesus' teachings, all the right things he says to do
And:
Faith in his blood will be the only thing that justifies/cleans you
BUT:
Obey the temple rules/ceremonial works because the temple is still standing and the pharisees will have you arrested, tortured and put to death if you don't do the old ceremonial works.
Paul taught:
Justification before God:
Believe that Jesus' blood justifies/cleans you of the sins you repent of doing
Do the right that Jesus says to do
And:
Faith in his blood justifies and the ceremonial works do not
Doing the ceremonial works keeps one safe from the pharisees but does nothing for salvation
Justification before God:
Obey the commands of what to do and sins not to do
And:
Do all the ceremonial works to justify/clean yourself
Since Jesus walked the earth
Justification before God:
Obey all of Jesus' teachings, all the right things he says to do
And:
Faith in his blood will be the only thing that justifies/cleans you
BUT:
Obey the temple rules/ceremonial works because the temple is still standing and the pharisees will have you arrested, tortured and put to death if you don't do the old ceremonial works.
Paul taught:
Justification before God:
Believe that Jesus' blood justifies/cleans you of the sins you repent of doing
Do the right that Jesus says to do
And:
Faith in his blood justifies and the ceremonial works do not
Doing the ceremonial works keeps one safe from the pharisees but does nothing for salvation
Interplanner
Well-known member
Generally good, but did you know that many believe that all of the ceremonial/dietary was originally presented as 'gratis' (done out of gratitude) not obligating God, UNTIL post-exile, intertestament Judaism? That the ceremonies and observances were not written as though God was obligated to the person? This creates the issues of Galatians and Acts 15, but also explains why at the end of Rom 11 Paul is writing a doxology to God that asks: 'to whom is God obligated or in debt?' Think about it: why would that need to be said IN ROM 11???
This view may help understand the apparent double proposal in which some NT believers keep so many ceremonial/dietary things. They are doing it to celebrate Christ (in Acts but tapering off). But DEMANDING it of other people? Who never grew up in that history? No, that's not going to be found in the NT. The analogy gets used (manna, Passover, temple) but in true spiritual form, fulfilled in Christ.
God's Truth
New member
It is the truth.
Nonsense.
How can you say such a thing?
Have you read Leviticus?
You are more confused than I have thought.
Tell me exactly which scripture you are talking about and explain exactly what you think it means.
I am not sure what you are talking about. Could you use scripture more? They are not doing it to celebrate Christ. How in the world do you get Christians were doing the ceremonial works to celebrate Christ? Please answer that. There were Judaizers who never understood that Jesus fulfilled the ceremonial works---evident in the fact that they were telling GENTILES they too had to be circumcised, etc. See, Gentiles didn't have to be safe from the pharisees. However, the pharisees saw law abiding CHRISTIAN Jews associating with Gentiles and that is part of the old law that is a forbidden. So now what? The Christian Jews knew that the Gentiles who were saved did not have to do the ceremonial works because it means nothing anymore, yet, how could they associate with their fellow Christian Gentiles without being put to death by the pharisees who would see them with Gentiles? That is why Paul opposed Peter. Peter knew that circumcision and the other ceremonial works meant nothing anymore, but he was too afraid to keep associating with his Gentile Christian brothers and sisters because it was breaking the old law,which the unbelieving pharisees still upheld.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Always the need to argue. Why is that? I don't need to go back any further. Try addressing what is presented to you instead of running off in another direction. :doh:
glorydaz
Well-known member
You should learn how to use your ears and not just your mouth. :idea:
God's Truth
New member
This is a discussion site and you said false things. Why shouldn't I bring it up? Stop talking about me personally. You are harassing me and that is against every law known.