Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

[beloved57]

Its works Salvation when ! 4

Its works Salvation when ! 4

Another scripture that indicates that the mind is a faculty used by man to perform a work, is this one Rom 7:25

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh[I serve] the law of sin.

Now according to this verse, with what does Paul serve the Law of God with ? The word serve douleuō means:


I.to be a slave, serve, do service

A.of a nation in subjection to other nations



II.metaph. to obey, submit to

A.in a good sense, to yield obedience

Also the word serve is synonymous with :

to be in the service of; work for, do the work of, do duty, function, work and work for, accomplish, achieve , do something; Now all this goes to show and make us understand the meaning of work by the definition of the greek word ergon Strongs # 2041 !

The scripture here Rom 10:10

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Believing with the heart here is a work man does, even though here in this context its a spiritual work, nevertheless its a work with the heart and or mind.

The word heart here the greek word kardia means:

a.the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavours

And remember the word work ergon means:

II.any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

This condemns all who say God saves them because they believed, it condemns them because they teach and believe salvation by their works !

 

[Nanja]

Part 1 #1775

Its works Salvation whenever we teach that God does not give us Salvation/Justification, but does suspend it or withholds it until we perform some kind of act, which after performance of, He in turns gives it us, that also made God bound to give it us because of the act we performed, such is Salvation/Justification by works, by debt, totally contrary to the scripture teaching that its not by debt Rom 4:4

Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Part 2 #1776

Now understand something, If we teach that one is not Justified by works, but turn around and teach that one is Justified before God by or because of their believing, then we just contradicted that one is not Justified by their works, since believing, the act of Faith is a work, its a Gospel evangelical work, an act performed by the mind, either the regenerated mind or the unregenerate mind or heart !

Part 3 #1777

We know that Faith/Believing is a Work the person does, when it is written, that men call on God to help them do it Mark 9:24

24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

Another scripture that indicates that the mind is a faculty used by man to perform a work, is this one Rom 7:25

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh[I serve] the law of sin.

Now according to this verse, with what does Paul serve the Law of God with ? The word serve douleuō means:


I.to be a slave, serve, do service

A.of a nation in subjection to other nations



II.metaph. to obey, submit to

A.in a good sense, to yield obedience

Also the word serve is synonymous with :

to be in the service of; work for, do the work of, do duty, function, work and work for, accomplish, achieve , do something; Now all this goes to show and make us understand the meaning of work by the definition of the greek word ergon Strongs # 2041 !

The scripture here Rom 10:10

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Believing with the heart here is a work man does, even though here in this context its a spiritual work, nevertheless its a work with the heart and or mind.

The word heart here the greek word kardia means:

a.the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavours

And remember the word work ergon means:

II.any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

This condemns all who say God saves them because they believed, it condemns them because they teach and believe salvation by their works !

Excellent 4-part study on "Its works Salvation when !

Those teaching that to believe in Christ is a condition or work that a person does
to obtain Salvation / Justification is a false gospel of works.

Belief in Christ is given to those Christ died for when they are Born of the Spirit;
they shall believe because Faith / Belief is a Fruit of the Spirit Gal. 5:22;
they were Chosen to Belief of the Truth 2 Thes. 2:13.

~~~~~

 

[beloved57]

Part 1 #1775



Part 2 #1776



Part 3 #1777







Excellent 4-part study on "Its works Salvation when !

Those teaching that to believe in Christ is a condition or work that a person does
to obtain Salvation / Justification is a false gospel of works.

Belief in Christ is given to those Christ died for when they are Born of the Spirit;
they shall believe because Faith / Belief is a Fruit of the Spirit Gal. 5:22;
they were Chosen to Belief of the Truth 2 Thes. 2:13.

~~~~~

Amen!

 

[beloved57]

Created a New Man unto good works !

Created a New Man unto good works !

The New Creation is also the New Man, Created in Christ Jesus Eph 2:10

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

, this is the New Created Man here Eph 4:24

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

The Prophets spoke of these New Men Created for Gods Glory Isa 43:7

Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

The word new here in Eph 4:24 for new man is the greek word kainos
fresh, new, unused, novel,

properly, new in quality (innovation), fresh in development or opportunity – because "not found exactly like this before."

new, which as recently made is superior to what it succeeds:

Of a New Kind !

Understand something, this Man is Not the same man we are that was created in adam, the old man, for in that man we are totally dead to God, alienated from the Life of God Eph 4:18,

Dead to any communion and Fellowship with God in the Old man ! Its only if and when we become a Newly Created Person in Christ, that we become alive to God, through Jesus Christ ! Rom 6:11, and its this New Created Man that can and does believe in and please God ! In the flesh, which is the old man, we cannot please God Rom 8:8 ! In the old man is only unbelief, imprisoned in it !

 

[beloved57]

Created a New Man unto good works ! 2

Created a New Man unto good works ! 2

With these things in mind, all Gospel Commands of Obedience, such as Repentance and Faith must be and are obeyed by the New Man and not the old man we are in adam. In the old man adam we always obey the law of sin and the flesh, in the old man as Paul stated of himself, we serve the law of sin Rom 7:23-25

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. The members of the old man !

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The True Believer is Mysteriously Two I's, hence one I that he is serves the Law of God in [Gospel Obedience and Faith in Christ], that is the New Man Created in Christ Jesus, but another I he is in adam which serves the law of sin and all that entails, unbelief and etc !

You see, the Newly Created Man or Women is given in New Birth a Nature that delights in and obeys the things of God Rom 7:22

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Now this a unregenerate man cannot do Rom 8:7-8 ! The New Man delights in God, His Law, Believes in Christ, Loves Righteousness and Truth, Loves them that Love God and walks in the Truth, he serves the Law of God, but in the old creation in adam his nature loves the things of the earth, serves the Law of sin and unrighteousness, for they are servants of sin in the flesh, they are free from righteousness Rom 6:20

20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

And that we are until we are are a Newly Created Man or Women in Christ, and not in Adam ! This Newly Created Man does the Good Works they are Created for and Called to, beginning with the Good work of Faith in Christ !

 

[beloved57]

The world of 2 Cor 5:19 2

The world of 2 Cor 5:19 2

2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

All of this World shall be made alive, given Life, quickened ; Why, because no sins, trepasses have been imputed/charged to it, hence making it a Just thing with God in Christ to give it Life from the dead, its that same world as here Jn 6:33

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

This World here is given Life because its No sin charged to it, its sin has been taken away by the Lamb of God Jn 1:29

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Wheres there is no sin, legally and justly it can be no death, for death is the wages of sin Rom 6:23, and wheres theres no death to be charged because of sin, Life must be given as an evidence that death has been abolished by the Death of Christ ! The World of 2 Cor 5:19 has had its death abolished 2 Tim 1:10

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Because its sin before God has been put away Heb 9:26

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

 

[Nanja]

Post #1784

The New Creation is also the New Man, Created in Christ Jesus Eph 2:10

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

, this is the New Created Man here Eph 4:24

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

The Prophets spoke of these New Men Created for Gods Glory Isa 43:7

Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

The word new here in Eph 4:24 for new man is the greek word kainos
fresh, new, unused, novel,

properly, new in quality (innovation), fresh in development or opportunity – because "not found exactly like this before."

new, which as recently made is superior to what it succeeds:

Of a New Kind !

Understand something, this Man is Not the same man we are that was created in adam, the old man, for in that man we are totally dead to God, alienated from the Life of God Eph 4:18,

Dead to any communion and Fellowship with God in the Old man ! Its only if and when we become a Newly Created Person in Christ, that we become alive to God, through Jesus Christ ! Rom 6:11, and its this New Created Man that can and does believe in and please God ! In the flesh, which is the old man, we cannot please God Rom 8:8 ! In the old man is only unbelief, imprisoned in it !

Post 1785

With these things in mind, all Gospel Commands of Obedience, such as Repentance and Faith must be and are obeyed by the New Man and not the old man we are in adam. In the old man adam we always obey the law of sin and the flesh, in the old man as Paul stated of himself, we serve the law of sin Rom 7:23-25

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. The members of the old man !

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The True Believer is Mysteriously Two I's, hence one I that he is serves the Law of God in [Gospel Obedience and Faith in Christ], that is the New Man Created in Christ Jesus, but another I he is in adam which serves the law of sin and all that entails, unbelief and etc !



You see, the Newly Created Man or Women is given in New Birth a Nature that delights in and obeys the things of God Rom 7:22

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Now this a unregenerate man cannot do Rom 8:7-8 ! The New Man delights in God, His Law, Believes in Christ, Loves Righteousness and Truth, Loves them that Love God and walks in the Truth, he serves the Law of God, but in the old creation in adam his nature loves the things of the earth, serves the Law of sin and unrighteousness, for they are servants of sin in the flesh, they are free from righteousness Rom 6:20

20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

And that we are until we are are a Newly Created Man or Women in Christ, and not in Adam ! This Newly Created Man does the Good Works they are Created for and Called to, beginning with the Good work of Faith in Christ !

Before anyone can please God, he must first be made a New Creation by Him;
A New Man, coming under the Power and Influence of the Holy Spirit. It's all of
His Working in the Vessels of Mercy which God had prepared / appointed beforehand
unto Glory Rom. 9:23, which speaks of predestination: Chosen in Christ to Eternal Life Eph. 1:4-11
solely according to His Purpose and Grace given them before before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9.

No man has the ability to choose to become saved by simply exercising his own freewill.
It's impossible for a man to do any works in the flesh and please God Rom 8:8.
For Salvation is a New Creation, only God can Create Eph. 2:10!

~~~~~

 

[Clete]

This is why I believe this is True !

Do you mean to suggest that you chose to believe this?

 

[beloved57]

Do you mean to suggest that you chose to believe this?

Did you read and understand that post?

 

[beloved57]

Post #1784


Post 1785



Before anyone can please God, he must first be made a New Creation by Him;
A New Man, coming under the Power and Influence of the Holy Spirit. It's all of
His Working in the Vessels of Mercy which God had prepared / appointed beforehand
unto Glory Rom. 9:23, which speaks of predestination: Chosen in Christ to Eternal Life Eph. 1:4-11
solely according to His Purpose and Grace given them before before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9.

No man has the ability to choose to become saved by simply exercising his own freewill.
It's impossible for a man to do any works in the flesh and please God Rom 8:8.
For Salvation is a New Creation, only God can Create Eph. 2:10!

~~~~~

Amen!

 

[beloved57]

They deny the power/effectualness of Christ's Death !

They deny the power/effectualness of Christ's Death !

Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering[His Death He tasted Heb 2:9] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

And them that are sanctified are those He specifically died for Heb 10:10 !

It is because the True Believer, which has been given Faith from the Spirit does believe in the effectualness of Christ's Potent and Efficacious death, that we understand His Death was not for all mankind without exception, because the death of Christ perfected forever them He died for, which Sanctified them also Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering[Death Heb 2:9] of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Also Heb 13:12

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood[Death,offering], suffered without the gate.

And since we know all mankind without exception have not by His Death been Sanctified and Perfected forever, we know He could not have died for all mankind without exception, unless His Death lost its effectualness !

Yet that's what lost religionist tell us, that Christ indeed taste death Heb 2:9 for every individual without exception, and they know good and well all are not perfected forever, as His death does effect; So those who falsely teach that are those which Paul writes of here 2 Tim 3:5

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

They deny the power and effectualness of Christ's death; even though they appear and sound godly in their fair speeches, how they speak so wonderfully of the Death of Christ, but yet still deny the Power thereof. The word Power can and does denotes its effectualness.

If you are one who teaches that Christ died for anyone that ends up in hell for their sins in unbelief, You deny the Power of the Cross, the Effectualness of Christ's death !

 

[Clete]

Did you read and understand that post?

Of course I understood it, the question is, did you?!

The very first sentence contradicts your premise - the VERY FIRST SENTENCE!!!!!

Of course that shouldn't be too much of a surprise when you consider the fact that those who believe we have no free will exercise their free will a thousand times a day. Their every day, moment by moment existence is filled to the brim with evidence that they are wrong. The very nature of their existence is in contradiction to their doctrine. So why shouldn't the very first sentence of an essay about the non-existence of the will do the same?


And, by the way, most religions in the world, including most of what is called Christianity (i.e. The Augustinian denominations and sects) as well as Islam, many eastern religions and even many atheists teach one form or another of fate, not free will.

And if any one attributes their existence to fate, because he calls the will or the power of God itself by the name of fate, let him keep his opinion, but correct his language. - Augustine of Hippo​

Resting in Him,
Clete

P.S.

I found an online poll (i.e. I have no idea how scientifically valid it is) that shows how wrong the opening post is...

Our fate is fully determined by a deity with a master plan. 15.09% (16 votes)


There are a fixed set of fated outcomes that are determined by a deity with a master plan. 18.87% (20 votes)


Fate exists but only in the broader context of our genetic code. 2.83% (3 votes)


Fate exists because our universe is deterministic. However, there is free will at the individual level. 34.91% (37 votes)


There is no such thing as fate. 28.3% (30 votes)



Total Votes: 106​

 

[beloved57]

Of course I understood it, the question is, did you?!

The very first sentence contradicts your premise - the VERY FIRST SENTENCE!!!!!

Of course that shouldn't be too much of a surprise when you consider the fact that those who believe we have no free will exercise their free will a thousand times a day. Their every day, moment by moment existence is filled to the brim with evidence that they are wrong. The very nature of their existence is in contradiction to their doctrine. So why shouldn't the very first sentence of an essay about the non-existence of the will do the same?


And, by the way, most religions in the world, including most of what is called Christianity (i.e. The Augustinian denominations and sects) as well as Islam, many eastern religions and even many atheists teach one form or another of fate, not free will.

And if any one attributes their existence to fate, because he calls the will or the power of God itself by the name of fate, let him keep his opinion, but correct his language. - Augustine of Hippo​

Resting in Him,
Clete

P.S.

I found an online poll (i.e. I have no idea how scientifically valid it is) that shows how wrong the opening post is...

Our fate is fully determined by a deity with a master plan. 15.09% (16 votes)


There are a fixed set of fated outcomes that are determined by a deity with a master plan. 18.87% (20 votes)


Fate exists but only in the broader context of our genetic code. 2.83% (3 votes)


Fate exists because our universe is deterministic. However, there is free will at the individual level. 34.91% (37 votes)


There is no such thing as fate. 28.3% (30 votes)



Total Votes: 106​

Then explain the points I made with scripture back to me !

 

[Nanja]

Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering[His Death He tasted Heb 2:9] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

And them that are sanctified are those He specifically died for Heb 10:10 !

It is because the True Believer, which has been given Faith from the Spirit does believe in the effectualness of Christ's Potent and Efficacious death, that we understand His Death was not for all mankind without exception, because the death of Christ perfected forever them He died for, which Sanctified them also Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering[Death Heb 2:9] of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Also Heb 13:12

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood[Death,offering], suffered without the gate.

And since we know all mankind without exception have not by His Death been Sanctified and Perfected forever, we know He could not have died for all mankind without exception, unless His Death lost its effectualness !

Yet that's what lost religionist tell us, that Christ indeed taste death Heb 2:9 for every individual without exception, and they know good and well all are not perfected forever, as His death does effect; So those who falsely teach that are those which Paul writes of here 2 Tim 3:5

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

They deny the power and effectualness of Christ's death; even though they appear and sound godly in their fair speeches, how they speak so wonderfully of the Death of Christ, but yet still deny the Power thereof. The word Power can and does denotes its effectualness.

If you are one who teaches that Christ died for anyone that ends up in hell for their sins in unbelief, You deny the Power of the Cross, the Effectualness of Christ's death !

Exactly! They actually don't believe that Christ's Death was effectual for all those He died for,
but that His Death only makes it possible, leaving it up to the individual to decide whether
Christ's death gives them Life or not. :nono: That's denying the Power of Christ's Death: Blasphemy!

~~~~~

 

[beloved57]

Exactly! They actually don't believe that Christ's Death was effectual for all those He died for,
but that His Death only makes it possible, leaving it up to the individual to decide whether
Christ's death gives them Life or not. :nono: That's denying the Power of Christ's Death: Blasphemy!

~~~~~

Exactly!

 

[Clete]

Then explain the points I made with scripture back to me !

Who do you think you are?

Answer my question or don't. Everyone who reads my question knows your answer already anyway.

 

[Clete]

Exactly! They actually don't believe that Christ's Death was effectual for all those He died for,
but that His Death only makes it possible, leaving it up to the individual to decide whether
Christ's death gives them Life or not. :nono: That's denying the Power of Christ's Death: Blasphemy!

~~~~~

He died for everyone, Nanja!

Your mindless doctrine only limits the value of Christ's blood, not our belief in its power. Our doctrine teaches that the inherent value of Christ's blood is infinite and cannot be exhausted. That it is far more than sufficient to pay the sin debt of the whole human race. However, it is God to whom this payment belongs and to whom our debt is owed. He gets to decide whether any of those debts are paid (i.e. forgiven) and under what circumstances, not us and certainly not you! It was God who decided that He would forgive whosoever believes and it is the shed blood of Christ that permits God do to that and remain just. God is not arbitrary, as your doctrine teaches. If He were, there would be no need for Christ's death in the first place.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Bright Raven]

Exactly! They actually don't believe that Christ's Death was effectual for all those He died for,
but that His Death only makes it possible, leaving it up to the individual to decide whether
Christ's death gives them Life or not. :nono: That's denying the Power of Christ's Death: Blasphemy!

~~~~~

You are an idiot!

 

[Clete]

Since we're on the subject of free will, I wonder if any of you who believe in destiny (i.e. predestination or whatever you want to call it) would answer a question...

What's the big deal exactly about people being able to choose? Where the threat? Why is it so critical that the notion of a free will be false?

Do you believe that God could have made us with a free will or do you believe that there is something fundamental about the nature of God that makes the notion of free will a complete non-starter?

 

[Nanja]

You are an idiot!

You are Lost!

~~~~~