Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
Clete said:
Since we're on the subject of free will, I wonder if any of you who believe in destiny (i.e. predestination or whatever you want to call it) would answer a question...

What's the big deal exactly about people being able to choose? Where the threat? Why is it so critical that the notion of a free will be false?

Do you believe that God could have made us with a free will or do you believe that there is something fundamental about the nature of God that makes the notion of free will a complete non-starter?
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His Word!

Bottom line is, it's not what man wills, but what God wills!

Dan. 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing:
and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven,
and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand,
or say unto him, What doest thou?

It was not God's will or desire to show His Mercy on all mankind Job. 23:13

Rom. 9:22-23
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known,
endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy,
which he had afore prepared unto glory

~~~~~
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Nanja said:
Only every one of His Sheep John 10:11,15!

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God has sent people like him a strong delusion to believe a lie ! Also they dont believe in the Saving Death of Christ !

You cant believe that if you believe one for whom Christ died ends up dying in their sins in unbelief !
 
Clete

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
beloved57 said:
God has sent people like him a strong delusion to believe a lie !
Click to expand...

How do you know that it isn't you who have believed the lie?

I can proof text all day long like you do.

I can even go into very great Biblical depth explaining at length precisely what I believe and why I believe it.

The difference, and I really do believe that this is the primary difference between what you do with the bible and what I do, is that I use sound reason and you use dogma in spite of reason.

I submit that sound reason is the only way any of us have of knowing that we haven't bought a lie. Paul said, "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed." So we are not to simply take the word of the preacher or lean on dogma nor believe something with blind faith. Paul wants us to compare any gospel we hear, even if an angel from heaven is the one preaching, to that which Paul himself teaches and if it is not the same, not only are we to reject the message but the messenger as well. How are we to do this if not by a process of sound reason? How do you compare one thing to another if not by reason? But you don't care about reason! You reject me BECAUSE of my use of reason, calling me God's judge as though I made up the rules of logic and how the universe works. You openly reject reason saying that God's ways are higher than our ways, as though being irrational is somehow higher than being of sound mind.

I ask you again, how do you know that you aren't the one who's bought the lie? Prove it to me!


Resting in Him,
Clete
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
God has sent people like him a strong delusion to believe a lie ! Also they dont believe in the Saving Death of Christ !

You cant believe that if you believe one for whom Christ died ends up dying in their sins in unbelief !
Click to expand...

You are so right!

Exactly! They actually don't believe that Christ's Death was effectual for all those He died for,
but that His Death only makes it possible, leaving it up to the individual to decide whether
Christ's death gives them Life or not. That's denying the Power of Christ's Death: Blasphemy!
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~~~~~
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Clete said:
How do you know that it isn't you who have believed the lie?

I can proof text all day long like you do.

I can even go into very great Biblical depth explaining at length precisely what I believe and why I believe it.

The difference, and I really do believe that this is the primary difference between what you do with the bible and what I do, is that I use sound reason and you use dogma in spite of reason.

I submit that sound reason is the only way any of us have of knowing that we haven't bought a lie. Paul said, "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed." So we are not to simply take the word of the preacher or lean on dogma nor believe something with blind faith. Paul wants us to compare any gospel we hear, even if an angel from heaven is the one preaching, to that which Paul himself teaches and if it is not the same not only are we to reject the message but the messenger as well. How are we to do this if not by a process of sound reason? But you don't care about reason! You reject me BECAUSE of my use of reason, calling me God's judge as though I made up the rules of logic and how the universe works.

I ask you again, how do you know that you aren't the one who's bought the lie? Prove it to me!


Resting in Him,
Clete
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You will find out in the Day of Judgment how I know. In the mean time, do you want to debate or discuss the things I have posted in this thread ? Post 1791 for example !
 
Clete

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
beloved57 said:
You will find out in the Day of Judgment how I know. In the mean time, do you want to debate or discuss the things I have posted in this thread ?
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That's up to you!

I asked you a question. I'm waiting for an answer.

Your choice.
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Nanja said:
You are blinded to the Light of the Gospel.

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You don't know what the Gospel is but so you won't be able to say you were never told;

1 Corinthians 15:1-4King James Version (KJV)

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
Bright Raven said:
You don't know what the Gospel is but so you won't be able to say you were never told;

1 Corinthians 15:1-4King James Version (KJV)

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Click to expand...


Like you, many folks use those verses incorrectly to support a false freewill religion;
whereby an unregenerate person can receive the Gospel and get himself saved.
But scriptures say otherwise:

Rom. 8:7-8
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God,
neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


But those verses in 1 Cor. 15:1-4 were written exclusively to the Church of God,
to them that are Sanctified, called to be Saints 1 Cor. 1:2, just as Paul explained
to the Saints in Eph. 1:1: The Elect Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph. 1:4-11.

So what Paul is saying in 1 Cor. 15:1-4 is that only the Saints, the Church,
will believe the Gospel, because Christ gave His Life for Her Eph. 5:25.

The Saints will believe the Gospel because they were Chosen to Salvation and Belief of the Truth.

2 Thes. 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath
from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth

~~~~~
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Nanja said:
Like you, many folks use those verses incorrectly to support a false freewill religion;
whereby an unregenerate person can receive the Gospel and get himself saved.
But scriptures say otherwise:

Rom. 8:7-8
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God,
neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


But those verses in 1 Cor. 15:1-4 were written exclusively to the Church of God,
to them that are Sanctified, called to be Saints 1 Cor. 1:2, just as Paul explained
to the Saints in Eph. 1:1: The Elect Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph. 1:4-11.

So what Paul is saying in 1 Cor. 15:1-4 is that only the Saints, the Church,
will believe the Gospel, because Christ gave His Life for Her Eph. 5:25.

The Saints will believe the Gospel because they were Chosen to Salvation and Belief of the Truth.

2 Thes. 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath
from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth

~~~~~
Click to expand...

Amen! Great Testimony !
 
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