beloved57
Well-known member
Is that what I said in post 1057 ?
Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
Is that what I said in post 1057 ?
So, are you assured of eternal life? If so, why?
When does God save the elects if He hasn't saved any yet? When does He save anyone?
I'm personally sure. I am sure God will save His children. I only get that from the Bible. Someone here say none are sure with proof texts. I could still be that none. I do not know what past, present and future feels like. How am I supposed to know what dead feels like and yet know what birth feels like at the same time.
I did buy a lotto ticket to test it. Well actually it was a quick pick.
beloved57
Well-known member
You need to read my threads, many explanations therein. Now again did you read post 1057 ?
In that post, you posted the Word of God and His Word tells us no one will seek God so that means everyone here isn't saved. That would mean that God gets to pick the elects anyway he wants and not at all based on what man does at any time down the road or path of his life. That would mean the elects are chosen before they were born and not base and anything man does cause none will seek God.
Right?
Is it a secret that the elects will never know if they're the elects at anytime during their physical lives?
beloved57
Well-known member
Christ's Resurrection and True Meaning !
Christ's Resurrection and True Meaning !
Christ being raised from the dead means that those He died for and rose again, it means they shall bring forth fruit unto God Rom 7:4-6
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
The word that is the prep hina and means I.that, in order that, so that, the purpose or end of ! Thats the purpose or end God had in raising Christ from the dead, so that those He died for shall bring forth fruit unto Him !
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Again the End, Purpose of God in the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Christ is that it should produce or bring forth fruit unto God, and if it does not do that, it failed the Divine Purpose of God. Now exactly what is this Fruit ? The answer is in Vs 5 Rom 7:6
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
The word that here is the word hōste and means:
I.
so that, insomuch that
II.
so then, therefore, wherefore
It expresses consequence or result ! Christ's death alone delivered all for whom He died from the Law, that the end would be, or that the consequence should be that we serve in Newness of Spirit, which is by New Birth !
Christ's Resurrection and True Meaning !
Christ being raised from the dead means that those He died for and rose again, it means they shall bring forth fruit unto God Rom 7:4-6
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
The word that is the prep hina and means I.that, in order that, so that, the purpose or end of ! Thats the purpose or end God had in raising Christ from the dead, so that those He died for shall bring forth fruit unto Him !
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Again the End, Purpose of God in the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Christ is that it should produce or bring forth fruit unto God, and if it does not do that, it failed the Divine Purpose of God. Now exactly what is this Fruit ? The answer is in Vs 5 Rom 7:6
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
The word that here is the word hōste and means:
I.
so that, insomuch that
II.
so then, therefore, wherefore
It expresses consequence or result ! Christ's death alone delivered all for whom He died from the Law, that the end would be, or that the consequence should be that we serve in Newness of Spirit, which is by New Birth !
beloved57
Well-known member
Christ's Resurrection and True Meaning ! 2
Christ's Resurrection and True Meaning ! 2
Yes, Christ's Resurrection effects, produces Fruit out of His Death, that we should serve in Newness of Spirit ! Rom 7:6
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
The word serve , greek word douleuō:
I.to be a slave, serve, do service
II.metaph. to obey, submit to
A.in a good sense, to yield obedience
It should result in those He died for yielding obedience to God in Newness of Spirit, to obey in Newness of Spirit !
Remember Jesus words here Jn 12:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
This is exactly what Paul is teaching in Rom 7:4,6
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Now the bringing forth of fruit unto God in Rom 7:4 is denoted by the same verb phero as in bear in Jn 12:24, that's because they are both speaking of the same outcome as the result of Christ's death and Resurrection, which is serving in Newness of Spirit, Yielding Obedience and submission to God through Jesus Christ !
So men and women who come to Spirit wrought Gospel obedience to God is the Fruit of Christ's Death as stated here Jn 12:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
And stated here by Paul Rom 7:4,6
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ [His Death]; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
This is irrefutable, I dare anyone to challenge this scripturally, they will be only showing that they are antichrist !
Christ's Resurrection and True Meaning ! 2
Yes, Christ's Resurrection effects, produces Fruit out of His Death, that we should serve in Newness of Spirit ! Rom 7:6
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
The word serve , greek word douleuō:
I.to be a slave, serve, do service
II.metaph. to obey, submit to
A.in a good sense, to yield obedience
It should result in those He died for yielding obedience to God in Newness of Spirit, to obey in Newness of Spirit !
Remember Jesus words here Jn 12:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
This is exactly what Paul is teaching in Rom 7:4,6
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Now the bringing forth of fruit unto God in Rom 7:4 is denoted by the same verb phero as in bear in Jn 12:24, that's because they are both speaking of the same outcome as the result of Christ's death and Resurrection, which is serving in Newness of Spirit, Yielding Obedience and submission to God through Jesus Christ !
So men and women who come to Spirit wrought Gospel obedience to God is the Fruit of Christ's Death as stated here Jn 12:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
And stated here by Paul Rom 7:4,6
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ [His Death]; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
This is irrefutable, I dare anyone to challenge this scripturally, they will be only showing that they are antichrist !
You said: None by nature seek God, neither the Elect or Non Elect Rom 3:11.
I meant elects being elects after God forced them to chose Him. What do the elects look like in thier natural state? I could touch up on my language but we have gone far into our conversation that I forgot what I'm asking or what you're asking.
For now is it alright to say God forced the elects to choose Jesus? Or do I need to redesign my language? Personally I belive the strings are on the puppets and people could call me robot.
beloved57
Well-known member
Christ's Resurrection and True Meaning ! 3
Christ's Resurrection and True Meaning ! 3
Christ's Death, Burial, and Resurrection was to the end that those He died for should serve God in the Newness of the Spirit Rom 7:6
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Or it could read that we should serve God out of the Newness of the Spirit; and what this speaks of is the renewing of the Spirit in Regeneration Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
The word renewing here is the same greek word for newness in Rom 7:6 its the word καινός and means:
I.newness
A.
in the new state of life in which the Holy Spirit places us so as to produce a new state which is eternal life
I.a renewal, renovation, complete change for the better !
So the Purpose of the death, burial , and resurrection was so that it would produce the fruit of the renewing of the Spirit, which is New Birth, and by that means bring forth fruit unto God Rom 7:4
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
This fruit is repentance Matt 3:8
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Thats repentance toward God Acts 20:21
21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Listen, Repentance toward God is the fruit of Christ's Death, Burial, and Resurrection, thats why its Joy in Heaven over one that repenteth Lk 15:7
7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
You know why he repented ? Because he was found by His seeking Shepherd and Saviour Lk 15:5-6
5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
Remember Christ came to seek and to save that which was Lost Lk 19:10, and unless the Sheep is found unto repentance, then He never found it.
The second fruit it bears is understanding and believing the Truth Matt 13:23
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Faith is a fruit of the Death Burial and Resurrection of Christ, that is needed to bring fruit unto God and to serve in Newness of Spirit, for we cannot serve God without Faith !
Christ's Resurrection and True Meaning ! 3
Christ's Death, Burial, and Resurrection was to the end that those He died for should serve God in the Newness of the Spirit Rom 7:6
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Or it could read that we should serve God out of the Newness of the Spirit; and what this speaks of is the renewing of the Spirit in Regeneration Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
The word renewing here is the same greek word for newness in Rom 7:6 its the word καινός and means:
I.newness
A.
in the new state of life in which the Holy Spirit places us so as to produce a new state which is eternal life
I.a renewal, renovation, complete change for the better !
So the Purpose of the death, burial , and resurrection was so that it would produce the fruit of the renewing of the Spirit, which is New Birth, and by that means bring forth fruit unto God Rom 7:4
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
This fruit is repentance Matt 3:8
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Thats repentance toward God Acts 20:21
21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Listen, Repentance toward God is the fruit of Christ's Death, Burial, and Resurrection, thats why its Joy in Heaven over one that repenteth Lk 15:7
7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
You know why he repented ? Because he was found by His seeking Shepherd and Saviour Lk 15:5-6
5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
Remember Christ came to seek and to save that which was Lost Lk 19:10, and unless the Sheep is found unto repentance, then He never found it.
The second fruit it bears is understanding and believing the Truth Matt 13:23
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Faith is a fruit of the Death Burial and Resurrection of Christ, that is needed to bring fruit unto God and to serve in Newness of Spirit, for we cannot serve God without Faith !
beloved57
Well-known member
Christ's Resurrection and True Meaning ! 4
Christ's Resurrection and True Meaning ! 4
We have been showing what the end results of Christ's Death, Burial, and Resurrection should produce in the purpose of God, and it was so that those Christ died for should bring fruit unto God, by serving in the Newness of the Spirit ! Rom 7:4-6
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Now Christ's being raised from the dead is vital in this connection, and it points us to what Peter wrote here 1 Pet 1:3
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
The being begotten again unto a lively hope is through the Resurrection of Christ from the dead or as Paul states it in Rom 7:4
even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
And so the fruit of the Resurrection of the dead is our being begotten again unto a Lively Hope, by the Resurrection of Christ from the dead. Now the words begotten again in 1 Pet 1:3 are the greek words anagennaō and means:
I.
to produce again, be born again, born anew
II.
metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God
Thats the New Life God purposed and is mentioned here Rom 7:6
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
It comes out of being begotten again through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, so that we bring forth fruit unto God Rom 7:4
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Everyone Christ died for, and rose again for, shall be given by New Birth through the Resurrection, a New Life that conforms to the Holy Will of God, a Change of Mind which is Repentance, this is the Fruit that Jesus Christ said would be produced if this would occur Jn 12:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
Jesus is that Corn of wheat that falls into the Ground [that His Burial ], and the bring forth much fruit is His Resurrection, and all for whom He died are in Purpose raised up together with Him Eph 2:6, and they all because of it shall serve in the Newness of the Spirit ! His death, burial and resurrection was a success to the Purpose of God !
Christ's Resurrection and True Meaning ! 4
We have been showing what the end results of Christ's Death, Burial, and Resurrection should produce in the purpose of God, and it was so that those Christ died for should bring fruit unto God, by serving in the Newness of the Spirit ! Rom 7:4-6
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Now Christ's being raised from the dead is vital in this connection, and it points us to what Peter wrote here 1 Pet 1:3
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
The being begotten again unto a lively hope is through the Resurrection of Christ from the dead or as Paul states it in Rom 7:4
even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
And so the fruit of the Resurrection of the dead is our being begotten again unto a Lively Hope, by the Resurrection of Christ from the dead. Now the words begotten again in 1 Pet 1:3 are the greek words anagennaō and means:
I.
to produce again, be born again, born anew
II.
metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God
Thats the New Life God purposed and is mentioned here Rom 7:6
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
It comes out of being begotten again through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, so that we bring forth fruit unto God Rom 7:4
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Everyone Christ died for, and rose again for, shall be given by New Birth through the Resurrection, a New Life that conforms to the Holy Will of God, a Change of Mind which is Repentance, this is the Fruit that Jesus Christ said would be produced if this would occur Jn 12:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
Jesus is that Corn of wheat that falls into the Ground [that His Burial ], and the bring forth much fruit is His Resurrection, and all for whom He died are in Purpose raised up together with Him Eph 2:6, and they all because of it shall serve in the Newness of the Spirit ! His death, burial and resurrection was a success to the Purpose of God !
blackbirdking
New member
Sounds like you are being honest: or the student of deception.
They both say they believe the Bible; they both use Bible verses for "proof".
Do you believe the Bible; do you know what it means?
So you're seeking truth?
Is God good? When?
Is sin bad? When
Many people believe God is good, but that He also caused sin.
All Calvinists believe God caused sin, but for a good reason. That is not possible if you believe God is good, and sin is bad. Good cannot cause bad; even when the Bible can be translated to say that. A man can make the Bible say anything; he can make it say that good causes bad. However, every thing good causes, is good; if it's bad, the cause which caused it is bad.
That's why a Calvinist cannot know if they have eternal life; the God they believe in, caused sin. Deception is a sin; in their view God caused it for good. If someone is deceived and goes to hell, that is good because God caused it. Therefore, a Calvinist believes God can deceive people, and all Calvinists are people, so an honest Calvinist must admit that God can deceive him.
Therefore, a Calvinist doesn't know if God chose him to go to heaven to glorify God, or God chose him to go to hell to glorify God.
Beloved57 posted that God caused sin, authored sin, ordained sin; this shows that he believes God can cause him to be deceived. That's why I posted that he might be deceived, and doesn't know if he is going to heaven to glorify God, or to hell to glorify God.
He gets all bent out of shape and can't answer, because if he does, his answer will be, "I don't know", if he is honest. Well, since he can't trust God because God causes sin/deception, he can't be having eternal life; because he can't trust God. People having eternal life, trust God; a good God; God is always good. They trust God because He is good.
Question: Do you know you are elect; or might you be deceived, by God, for God's glory?
Anytime you follow a man's idea's you are wrong; every time. Even Jesus pointed people to His Father's ideas.
Why?
They both say they believe the Bible; they both use Bible verses for "proof".
Do you believe the Bible; do you know what it means?
So you're seeking truth?
Is God good? When?
Is sin bad? When
Many people believe God is good, but that He also caused sin.
All Calvinists believe God caused sin, but for a good reason. That is not possible if you believe God is good, and sin is bad. Good cannot cause bad; even when the Bible can be translated to say that. A man can make the Bible say anything; he can make it say that good causes bad. However, every thing good causes, is good; if it's bad, the cause which caused it is bad.
That's why a Calvinist cannot know if they have eternal life; the God they believe in, caused sin. Deception is a sin; in their view God caused it for good. If someone is deceived and goes to hell, that is good because God caused it. Therefore, a Calvinist believes God can deceive people, and all Calvinists are people, so an honest Calvinist must admit that God can deceive him.
Therefore, a Calvinist doesn't know if God chose him to go to heaven to glorify God, or God chose him to go to hell to glorify God.
Beloved57 posted that God caused sin, authored sin, ordained sin; this shows that he believes God can cause him to be deceived. That's why I posted that he might be deceived, and doesn't know if he is going to heaven to glorify God, or to hell to glorify God.
He gets all bent out of shape and can't answer, because if he does, his answer will be, "I don't know", if he is honest. Well, since he can't trust God because God causes sin/deception, he can't be having eternal life; because he can't trust God. People having eternal life, trust God; a good God; God is always good. They trust God because He is good.
Question: Do you know you are elect; or might you be deceived, by God, for God's glory?
beloved57
Well-known member
You will find out at the Judgment who knew that they were of the Elect. I know now that you don't believe the Gospel, which men like you dismiss as Calvinism.
Posted from the TOL App!
blackbirdking
New member
No; you know nothing. You believe God authored lies. You don't trust Him; period.
You don't know if your elect to go to heaven, or elect to go to hell.
You don't know if your deceived.
You believe with God "all" things are possible; God elects people to go to hell.
You don't know what happens after you die.
beloved57
Well-known member
Now deal with the Truths of posts 1069-70, 72-73
Even while Billy Graham agrees with inclusivism, he, at his old age, also sees himself as among all mankind that deserves to go to hell no matter what God does.
Why does it matter if God chooses whom goes to hell or not when all deserve to go to hell due to sin?
Isn't saving at least one person good enough even those that person don't exist?
blackbirdking
New member
Problem: "Truths"?
Authored by the same One who authors lies/deceit?
You gotta be drinking.
It's impossible to know the difference between truth and deceit if one doesn't know if he's deceived. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
God authored deceit; remember?
blackbirdking
New member
No problem with what God chooses; it's the character of God at stake here. God is good; always; if I think otherwise, I am wrong.
Since God is good, He cannot author sin; period. Even if I don't have the answers.