Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

[beloved57]

wresting scripture to their own destruction !

wresting scripture to their own destruction !

2 Pet 3:16

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

The word wrest here is an interesting word, the greek word strebloō:

to twist, turn awry

2) to torture, put to the rack

3) metaph. to pervert, of one who wrests or tortures language in a false sense

Some men are guilty of turning or twisting scripture to give it an meaning that is not there or intended, they give it a false sense or meaning, they are torturing scripture when they do that !

A prime example is 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Now here men in an attempt to deny the Gospel Truth of Unconditional Sovereign Election of some to Salvation, hence leaving the rest to perish in their sins, they say here that Peter is teaching that Election is based upon or conditioned on foreknowing or seeing beforehand ones act of Faith or believing; However this is a blatant false witness of that scripture and Election in Principle, for that would contradict the very purpose of Election as set forth by Paul here in Rom 9:10-11

10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

So God's Purpose according to Election is not premised on Him foreseeing of one doing good or evil, which Faith or Believing on Christ is a good deed done.

The word done is the word prassō and means:

to exercise, practise, to be busy with, carry on
a) to undertake, to do
2) to accomplish, perform
a) to commit, perpetrate
3) to manage public affairs, transact public business
a) to exact tribute, revenue, debts

4) to act

To believe on Christ is considered a good thing to do, which is well pleasing in God's sight 1 Jn 3:22-23

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.


So if what they allege be true, that God's Election is based upon foreseen acts of believing or Faith upon Christ, then Paul here is mistaken and Election is based upon doing good, by ones works, by their act or doing, hence nullifying Grace Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

So if Election is based upon foreseen Faith or believing, then it is no more of Grace.

But yet that is one of the ways men do wrest scripture to their own destruction, in order to give sinful men a occasion to boast about what they did to effect Salvation.

 

[beloved57]

The Gift of Justification/ Reconciliation with God!

The Gift of Justification/ Reconciliation with God!

The Gift of Justification and or Reconciliation with God based on the Death and Blood of Jesus Christ is not something offered or made available for man to either accept it or reject it, no, its just a accomplished fact in the Mind, based solely on the Death / Blood of Christ on behalf of those He did die for.

That these things are gifts of God's Grace freely given by God, and received by them, we know to be true because, even while those Christ died for are enemies, unbelievers, rejecting God and Christ by Nature, even then they are or have been reconciled to God by the Death of His Son Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we[believers] were enemies[or unbelievers], we[believers before believing] were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

They were reconciled to God already while being in a alienated lost state by Nature, thats why it is promised that they shall be saved by His Life.

Thats because as in a Lost state, they already had been reconciled to God by the Gift of Grace of Christ's Death Heb 2:9 !

Now to be reconciled to God means this: The word reconciled is the greek word katallassō and it means:

1) to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
a) to reconcile (those who are at variance)
b) return to favor with, be reconciled to one
c) to receive one into favor

So they even when a Lost, alienated from God state, with enmity in their heart against God, even then they were received into God's Favor based solely upon the Gift of Grace given them in the Death of God's Son for them.

Remember, Christ's Death was by the Grace of God for them Heb 2:9

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

The word Grace here is Charis and means:

the token or proof of grace, benefit

1) a gift of grace

Now, they did not have to accept the gift, or personally receive the Gift for the Gift to benefit them.

They received the Gift and its benefits while they were still unbelievers or enemies, or they could have never been reconciled to God while enemies.

So point blank, those who teach that the death of Christ does not benefit those He died for until they accept the Gift of Christ's Death personally, are false witnesses.

 

[beloved57]

A False statement ! 5 Sin of Unbelief !

A False statement ! 5 Sin of Unbelief !

The sin of unbelief ! If Christ did not die for the sin of unbelief for those He died for, then in the day of Judgment all for whom He died shall have to give an account for that one sin which shall dam them. It shall dam them even if one day they become a believer in Christ, they shall be condemned still for that sin of unbelief for which some say He did not die for. If one is ever guilty of unbelief, which all by nature share in Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

But since Christ did not die for that sin, then ones becoming a believer did not wash away that sin by Christ's Blood, simply because Christ's Blood they say was not shed for it, so even as a believer, we must give an account for the one sin some say Christ did not die for and be damned for it.

 

[beloved57]

wresting scripture to their own destruction !2

wresting scripture to their own destruction !2

1 Jn 2:2

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Another very common wresting of scripture in false religion is that propitiation here is for all men without exception; However this simply cannot and is not true for there are those in mankind who God's wrath continually abides on them in their unbelief Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

The word abideth here is in the present indicative active, and denotes that God is putting forth the constant effects and influence of His Wrath on them.

However the term propitiation indicates that God is appeased and for those whom He has appeased in behalf of, He no longer deals with them in His Wrath.

The word propitiation is the greek word hilasmos:

a propitiation (of an angry god), atoning sacrifice.

properly, propitiation; an offering to appease (satisfy) an angry, offended party. 2434 (hilasmós) is only used twice (1 Jn 2:2, 4:10) – both times of Christ's atoning blood that appeases God's wrath, on all confessed sin. By the sacrifice of Himself, Jesus Christ provided the ultimate 2434 /hilasmós ("propitiation").

Confessed sin would be all the sins that the High Priest confesses before God in view of His Sacrifice. This was typed out here Leviticus 16:21-22

21 And Aaron[The High Priest] shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.

So Christ died as Our High Priest if He died for us Heb 2:17

Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

So all for whom Christ has died for, God can no longer deal with them in wrath, in fact, even when they are born as His enemies, because of Christ's Death that appeased Him for them, they are even at that time reconciled to God ! Now how could this be except for the benefit of Christ's Death applied to them ! So how is it that Christ's death can be a benefit to enemies that are under God's wrath Jn 3:36 ?

So its simply impossible for the anyone of that whole World of 1 Jn 2:2 to be under God's wrath even if they are in unbelief. Yes, the false witness would tell us that those under God's wrath in Jn 3:36 is because of unbelief, meaning that Christ's death did not benefit those He died for unless they believe, which we know cannot be true since those Christ died for are benefited by Christ's death while they are enemies/unbelievers, because while being enemies/unbelievers they were reconciled to God by the Death of His Son Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we[believers] were enemies[unbelievers], we were[past tense] reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

And this reconciliation and propitiation are one and the same Heb 2:17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation[propitiation] for the sins of the people.

So to wrest scripture and teach that 1 Jn 2:2 means all without exception, when clearly the scripture teaches some men are under God's wrath Jn 3:36; Rom 1:18 is to teach a lie.

 

[beloved57]

The Gift of Repentance !

The Gift of Repentance !

In Acts 2:38-40

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

In Vs 38 Peter instructs His hearers, whom he heard ask the question, Vs37

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Peter immediately perceived that the Gift of the Spirit had been given them as well as the Gift of Repentance [a change of mind] Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Its obvious that repentance had begun in them since they were convicted now differently about Jesus Christ, they now had a change of mind, but they still needed instruction.

Repentance is Given or Granted to all those Christ is a Saviour to, not only to these jews, but also to some among the Gentiles Acts 11:18

8 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Repentance is given in Salvation and not required as an condition to be performed to get saved, that's a false teaching that deprives the saving effects of Christ's Death !

The word give in Acts 5:31 and granted in Acts 11:18 is didōmi and means:

to give something to someone, of one's own accord to give one something, to his advantage,

to bestow a gift

All for whom Christ died for, He rose to bestow upon them the Gift of Repentance !

 

[beloved57]

About freewill salvation ! A sin against the Spirit !

About freewill salvation ! A sin against the Spirit !

Freewill attributes Salvation to the will/act of man, which is Blasphemy, for Salvation is of God alone Jonah 2:9

9 But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the Lord.

Matt 19:25-26

25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Jesus did not say with God and man it is possible to save, but with God it is possible !

The Triune God consisting of the Father, The Word/ Son, and the Blessed Holy Ghost. Some men attribute Salvation to man's freewill when they say that faith is before New Birth or Regeneration, so this makes either the natural man's act of believing applying Spiritual Salvation, or that the natural mans act of faith is the moving cause of the Spirit's application of Salvation, instead of the Merits and Blood of Christ being the sole cause why He applies Spiritual Salvation to all for whom Christ died.

So with this rationale, mans Salvation ultimately is based upon and decided by the act or will of a sinful man, and not upon the Spirit effectually apply it based solely on the Merits of Christ's Death/ Blood. This is a sin against the Spirit !

When Salvation is understood rightly, its when the act of believing the Truth is the Result of the Application Work of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

 

[beloved57]

About freewill salvation ! A sin against the Spirit !2

About freewill salvation ! A sin against the Spirit !2

Does Faith have a Role in Salvation ? Why it most certainly does, but herein lies the way it does, Faith given by the fruit of New Birth and of the Spirit is the instrumental means by which Spiritual Knowledge of ones already accomplished Salvation, or Atonement, Justification is received, Rom 5:11

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received[By the Spirits Application] the atonement.

The Spirit gives Knowledge of Salvation by the remission of sins Lk 1:77

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

In other words, all for whom Christ died, He remitted their sins by His Blood Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

This remission of sins is their Salvation and Justification from all sin and its consequences, but now they must receive the Knowledge of it, and Faith is given for that purpose, to give knowledge of Salvation by the accomplishment of Christ's Blood remitting their sins.

But the false concept and perverted teaching of faith by false teachers is that faith is an human condition man must meet before God saves or justifies them from their sins.

Faith is part of God's Gift of Salvation Eph 2:8 and that which accompanies it Heb 6:9

9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

Yes, Faith is one of those things that accompany Salvation. Paul writes in Rom 8:32

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

In other words, Christ is Our Salvation, its in Him alone, how could God give Him and not along with the Giving of Him, give all things necessary to Believe in Him ?

Does not Paul write here that it is given to believe on Him for Christ's own name sake ? Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

So believing on Him was one of the all things freely given all those God delivered Him up for Rom 8:32 !

Now look at this The same word give in Rom 8:32 the word charizomai:

to give graciously, give freely, bestow

Its also the word Paul uses in Phil 1:29 given ! This confirms that Believing on Him comes with the Giving of Him, by delivering Him up for our sins, if indeed we are one of the blessed ones He died for.

So faith or believing on Christ is not mans contribution to Salvation, but its the result of it, and not the cause of it.

This would not be much of a problem to understand if we were truly knowledgeable of the total depravity and inability of the sinner dead in sin and with no ability in that condition to receive or believe the things of God 1 Cor 2:14. Faith pleases God Heb 11:6, but they who are in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8.

But God given Faith in New Birth and Salvation Eph 2:8 can receive and acknowledge that God has already Justified them by His Grace alone, even while they were being ungodly, and being His enemy Rom 5:10 !

So Faiths role in Salvation is to give Knowledge of Salvation, which Salvation was secured and accomplished by the remission of their sins by Christ's Blood !

 

[beloved57]

wresting scripture to their own destruction !3

wresting scripture to their own destruction !3

The scripture is wrest unto destruction when the opposer of Definite and Particular Atonement/Redemption carelessly impose the meaning of the words all or every to mean all without exception, when yet the scripture clearly uses terms that make definite it is for whom Christ died, and so the term' all or every should be restricted to the definite or particular. For example Christ died for all 2 Cor 5:14-15

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Yet scripture clearly tells us He died specifically for the Sheep Jn 10:11,15

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

So therefore a fair and reasonable understanding would be that Christ died for all of or everyone of His Sheep.

Another, Christ gave Himself a ransom for all 1 Tim 2:6

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. But yet it is clear that He gave Himself a ransom for the Many Matt 20:28

28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

So the general all in 1 Tim 2:6, means the particular many in Matt 20:28.




The same is wrested when it comes to the Love of God and who are the objects of it; Jn 3:16 says the World is the object, but yet more specifically scripture states that its His Own in the World who are the objects Jn 13:1 and even more specifically the Church Eph 5:25.

The objects of His Love in Jn 3:16 is His Own Church, His Body. So its quite unreasonable and very dishonest to say that all in 1 Tim 2:6 means something different from the Many in Matt 20:28;or the all in 2 Cor 5:14-15 means something other than the Sheep in Jn 10:11,15 !

 

[beloved57]

Adam and Eve God's Elect !

Adam and Eve God's Elect !

Was Adam and Eve God's Elect ? Yes in the beginning Adam and Eve were the Natural Parents for the Elect Godly Seed Mal 2:15

15 And did not he make one?[Adam and Eve] Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed[offspring]. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.

Now after the Fall of the Godly Adam and Eve, God gave them the Faith of God's Elect, for Adam spoke in Faith when He said after their great transgression in the threat of death these words Gen 3:20

20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

This was said while there was no other living human beings, and right after hearing the serious consequences of sin. This is proof that they believed God's Promise of the seed that was to come through her.

Eve was named by Adam, who obviously inspired by God to give her that name, and the name means life or life giver, what a name for one who just brought death into the world by her transgression.

Obviously Adam hearing of the Word of God or Promise inspired Him to believe in the Life that was coming through their seed, the Seed of the Woman, for He was to defeat the head of the serpent who had successfully deceived the woman and caused their sin and death. This Seed was to be the Last Adam and was to give Life 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening or life giving spirit.

Remember Eve means life or giver of life ! Her Seed was to be the giver of life to the World Jn 6:33

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. See 1 Cor 15:45

45 So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

In believing the promise, and naming His wife Eve proves that Faith cometh by Hearing, and Hearing by the Word or Promise of God Rom 10:17. This also should prove that in the beginning the Worlds First Parents were the Elect of God, and therefore given Faith of God's Elect Titus 1:1-2

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

 

[Christian Liberty]

The Bible says in Adam all die. That wouldn't make any sense if Adam was of the elect.

I'm with AW Pink on this one. Adam was not saved.

 

[Nang]

The Bible says in Adam all die. That wouldn't make any sense if Adam was of the elect.

I'm with AW Pink on this one. Adam was not saved.

Beloved57 holds to many truths regarding the sovereignty of God and has a grasp on the saving grace of God, but he goes off the plantation in his views of Adam.

He and I have been differing over these strange views of his regarding Adam, for years.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Beloved57 holds to many truths regarding the sovereignty of God and has a grasp on the saving grace of God, but he goes off the plantation in his views of Adam.

He and I have been differing over these strange views of his regarding Adam, for years.

What's his take on Adam? My personal take is that Adam and Eve, not being totally depraved before they sinned, had free will, until they sinned. I would also say that because the Bible says "In Adam all die" it is a logical conclusion that Adam himself will spend eternity in Hell.

B-57 not only denies Duty-Faith, but he has actually anathemized me for holding to it. I defended B-57 for awhile but when I learned what his position of Duty-Faith I couldn't in good conscience do so anymore.

I could probably agree with the thread title under certain conditions, but what he defines as "Free Will" is so ridiculously broad. I think he probably considers me a free-will believer. I know he thinks I believe in works salvation, despite the fact that I'm a 5-point Calvinist, because I'm not a type-2 hyper

I'd say B-57 would get along well with Marc Carpenter, but they'd anathemize each other. The only saving grace for OTC in that regard is they're actually more right than B-57 is in this case, for all their flaws (And I do believe they're damned too) they don't embrace the hyper-calvinist heresy like B-57 does.

Not everyone who claims to be Reformed/Calvinist/believing in predestination/TULIP is on our side.

 

[Christian Liberty]

@Nang- Do the Reformed churches teach Adam as being damned? I honestly wouldn't know one way or the other. I've never read any of the Reformed confessions. I've come to the beliefs I have on Adam and on Reformed theology in general from the Bible. My church doesn't even technically qualify as "Reformed" although the pastor (My dad) is a 5-point Calvinist.

 

[beloved57]

The Bible says in Adam all die. That wouldn't make any sense if Adam was of the elect.

I'm with AW Pink on this one. Adam was not saved.

Yeah, all the elect died in Adam, thats it ! And all who died in Adam are made Alive in the Last Adam. You see, in the beginning Adam did not represent the seed of the serpent, but the seed of the woman. Gen 3:15

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Check this out ladies and germs: http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/theology/6355-freewill-religion-man-sin.html

I have a question for you beloved57:

Since you believe God elects people ahead of time, what makes you think you are going to heaven and not to hell? How do YOU know?

You never did answer my question.

 

[beloved57]

Check this out ladies and germs: http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/theology/6355-freewill-religion-man-sin.html



You never did answer my question.

I am not here to discuss me.

 

[beloved57]

Christ's obedience alone saves those He died for !

Christ's obedience alone saves those He died for !

The reason why Grace alone saved all those Christ died for, its because its by the Grace of His Death that makes those He died for Righteous before God, and thus saved. Heb 2:9

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

And by His Death alone, His obedience unto death as per Phil 2:8

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Now this death here is the same as the one in Heb 2:9 which is by the Grace of God.

Now Rom 5:19 reads:

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Thats Salvation, to be made Righteous, accomplished solely by the Obedience of one, which Obedience is Christ's Death Phil 2:8 !

To deny this is to deny Christ's Death and Salvation by Grace !

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Check this out ladies and germs: http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/theology/6355-freewill-religion-man-sin.html

I have a question for you beloved57:

Since you believe God elects people ahead of time, what makes you think you are going to heaven and not to hell? How do YOU know?

You never did answer my question.

I am not here to discuss me.

That was your cop-out in the other forum too. I am asking you to explain your beliefs vis–à–vis your own salvation: Since you believe God elects people ahead of time, what makes you think you are going to heaven and not to hell? How do YOU know?

Or is the answer that you actually do NOT know, and are thus full of crap.

 

[beloved57]

catholic cr

what makes you think you are going to heaven and not to hell? How do YOU know?

I am not here to discuss me, you find out about me at the Judgment !

Learn about the Gospel I preach:

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59236

 

[Christian Liberty]

That was your cop-out in the other forum too. I am asking you to explain your beliefs vis–à–vis your own salvation: Since you believe God elects people ahead of time, what makes you think you are going to heaven and not to hell? How do YOU know?

Or is the answer that you actually do NOT know, and are thus full of crap.

B-57 is too much of a hypercalvinist heretic to actually defend the gospel he preaches. At least he proclaims it, but he won't defend it. Why would he? He doesn't even claim you are duty-bound to believe. That's how nutty his theology is.

I don't know the best place to direct you to learn Reformed theology, I'm certainly not claiming to be the best source, but please, PLEASE don't get it from him. And don't get it from Marc Carpenter.

Now, I'll answer the question you asked.

Every Christian has the Holy Spirit, and has had such since Acts 2 (You should probably understand why this is, but I can find you a text if necessary). So, having the Holy Spirit is a clear sign of regeneration. A Christian will know he has the Holy Spirit. The Bible also says that you'll know a Christian by his fruit.

It also says that those who preach a false gospel are damned (Galatians 1:8) so that's a way to tell who is NOT regenerate.

That said, you can't really know who is or is not of the elect other than yourself.