Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !
- Thread starter beloved57
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beloved57
Well-known member
Faith or Believing is a Work !
Faith or Believing is a Work !
Now that Faith or Believing is a work can be discerned by Jn 6:29
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Whereby believing is stated to be the Work of God, and if we take this to mean that ones believing in Christ is an effectual Work of God in us to will and to do of His good pleasure as Per Phil 2:13 or that believing is the Work or duty that God requires men to do in order to believing in Christ, Now if the former, then God must be given all the credit for working in one to believe in His Son, but if the latter, that our believing is that work God requireth of us, to believe on His Son unto Salvation, then we are saved by our work. Either way believing is a Work here, the Work of Believing, So if it is our work of believing that got us saved, then that is Salvation by works and contrary to Scripture which saith Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Faith or Believing is a Work !
Now that Faith or Believing is a work can be discerned by Jn 6:29
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Whereby believing is stated to be the Work of God, and if we take this to mean that ones believing in Christ is an effectual Work of God in us to will and to do of His good pleasure as Per Phil 2:13 or that believing is the Work or duty that God requires men to do in order to believing in Christ, Now if the former, then God must be given all the credit for working in one to believe in His Son, but if the latter, that our believing is that work God requireth of us, to believe on His Son unto Salvation, then we are saved by our work. Either way believing is a Work here, the Work of Believing, So if it is our work of believing that got us saved, then that is Salvation by works and contrary to Scripture which saith Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
tbuitendyk
New member
"But to him that WORKETH NOT, BUT BELIEVETH on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."
You contradict scripture when it is plain, proving that you are not rightly dividing the word of God.
b57: "believing is a work"
God: "believing is NOT a work"
Evidently I have to take your word or God's. Let's see...
beloved57
Well-known member
Freewill gives man to boast !
Freewill gives man to boast !
Freewill gives man reason to boast , which is contrary to Grace Salvation through faith Eph 2:8-9, not of works lest any man should boast. Arminians and freewillers make themselves to differ in that they obeyed the command to repent to be saved, and so made himself to differ from him who did not obey the command to repent. So they overthrow the principle that Paul sets forth here in 1 Cor 4:7
7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?
The True Christian knows for certain that their obedience to the Gospel was given them from Heaven Jn 3:27 where Christ sitteth at the Right hand of God Col 3:1
So those who believe and teach that their obedience made the difference for them of saved and lost, congratulations, for you are officially a boaster 2 Tim 3:2
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
For they are too proud to say that God Only makes one to differ in the acts of Gospel Obedience because that Deny's their idol freewill !
Freewill gives man to boast !
Freewill gives man reason to boast , which is contrary to Grace Salvation through faith Eph 2:8-9, not of works lest any man should boast. Arminians and freewillers make themselves to differ in that they obeyed the command to repent to be saved, and so made himself to differ from him who did not obey the command to repent. So they overthrow the principle that Paul sets forth here in 1 Cor 4:7
7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?
The True Christian knows for certain that their obedience to the Gospel was given them from Heaven Jn 3:27 where Christ sitteth at the Right hand of God Col 3:1
So those who believe and teach that their obedience made the difference for them of saved and lost, congratulations, for you are officially a boaster 2 Tim 3:2
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
For they are too proud to say that God Only makes one to differ in the acts of Gospel Obedience because that Deny's their idol freewill !
tbuitendyk
New member
Perhaps the words in Romans 4:5 "WORKETH NOT, BUT BELIEVETH" mean something different to you than to me. In this case I don't think we can communicate effectively.
It seems to me that Ephesians 2:8-9 only reinforces the fact that saving faith is not a work. Clearly we are saved "through" faith in God's graceful work (not "by" faith), which FAITH is further clarified to NOT BE WORK.
Both passages tell us that our believing faith IS NOT A WORK.
Mixing it up, that is, making FAITH unscripturally into a WORK, is the root of Calvinist confusion.
"I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, therefore repent ye and live!"
t.
From Satan and Adam and Eve,free will has caused many to be lost to God.Please think things through before posting them.If free will doesnt exist,then God chose for only a few to be saved?Even though He loves all mankind and wishes that none shall perish(these are His words)?If He prevents most from being saved,how can a person be judged fairly?In fact no person can be judged whatsoever,good or evil,because this same logic says we only respond to God by irresistable grace.So why does irresistable grace "force" people to sin?Or is the kingdom of God spiritually divided against itself?We are called to repent-failing to do so means we sin willfully and are lost(there is no more sacrifice for sin,and we are sanctified unholy).Why would Jesus/God say"do this or dont do this".Why even have a bible ?Why preach the gospel~nobody can willingly hear the truth and accept Christ.Why does God expect us to obey if we are robots?How could God say"I love all mankind,I just wanna watch most of them burn and suffer in eternal hell for not doing the things which I called them to do,even though Iprevented him from doing them?This makes God,unjust,unloving,and downright evil and vendictive.Jesus said He came for the sick, NOT the righteous.ANd works based faith is not the same as being faithful and obedient.If we have nothing to do with following,why did Jesus say we must(parable of the wise and foolish builders).He equates a man who hears the words(but doesnt follow) as lost,aka dead.This is a believer who doesnt follow.Same story in the parable of the ten bridesmaids.Same as Jesus saying"not all who come to me and say to me lord,Lord,shall enter the kingdom but He who does the will God"
tbuitendyk
New member
I'm going to try to help -- please be patient, I'm not mocking you...
Let's try that logic of yours:
There is WORK, and there is PLAY.
WORK is not PLAY; PLAY is not WORK.
WORK is something you DO, therefore WORK is WORK.
PLAY is something you DO, therefore PLAY is WORK?!?!?!
You've a serious problem with your logic.
Try to think about Romans 4:5. It is clearly saying "the one who DOES NOT WORK, but rather BELIEVES". This MEANS the person DOing the ACTION in the sentence IS NOT WORKING. It also MEANS that the person DOing the ACTION in the sentence IS BELIEVING.
Clearly, as with the WORK/PLAY example, DOing the ACTION does NOT EQUAL WORK!
In Romans 4:5 we can see easily that BELIEVING IS NOT WORKING. How much more clear could the scriptures be?
This is why you need not HIDE BEHIND IRRESISTIBLE GRACE in order to avoid WORKING for your salvation. God, as a matter of fact, ALL OVER THE BIBLE -- Commands -- Entreats -- Desires that man REPENT and BELIEVE.
You don't need your crutch of Calvinism to escape work-based salvation! Irresistible grace is the fatal flaw of Calvinistic thinking. By CONFUSING repentance and belief with work, Calvinism finds it necessary to remove REAL repentance and belief, REPLACING them with FORCED counterfeits (irresistible grace), and DENY the FACT of free will that we know is true by experience.
Notice that this is NOT about trying to take credit for salvation or put power in mankind's hands -- it's about the reality that God gave us a free will, and exercising that free will in repentance and belief in order to be SAVED BY CHRIST'S WORK is not "working" for salvation!
t.
beloved57
Well-known member
tb
Thats false, that is exactly what work is ! The word action means:
the process or state of acting or of being active: The machine is not in action now.
2.
something done or performed; act; deed.
3.
an act that one consciously wills and that may be characterized by physical or mental activity
Now lets define the word works in Eph 2:9 it is the greek word ergon and means:
business, employment, that which any one is occupied
a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
Now do you see the similarities in the definitions ?
Thats false, that is exactly what work is ! The word action means:
the process or state of acting or of being active: The machine is not in action now.
2.
something done or performed; act; deed.
3.
an act that one consciously wills and that may be characterized by physical or mental activity
Now lets define the word works in Eph 2:9 it is the greek word ergon and means:
business, employment, that which any one is occupied
a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
Now do you see the similarities in the definitions ?
The "Human Free Will" mindset is one of the greatest strongholds in opposition to Sovereignty of the Creator. It is a result of the deliberate concealment of the Creator. To the degree that the Creator is concealed from a person, in like measure people will look to the power of the "Human Free Will" to fill the gap. Free Will is an illusion, but a necessary illusion. It is a tool which drives people to the Creator when they realize that their supposed Free Will is a false deity.
All religious and non religious peoples who enshrine the “Human Free Will” platform eventually end up shaking their fist, demanding their freedom from the rule of God. It is a form of sedition which is strongly anchored in the hearts of humankind. The Creator has ordained it to be so for the purposes of our spiritual growth. It is a big step to be given the Light so as to lay it down.
When I began to see how truly awful the “Human Free Will” worldview is, it became to me as one of the most prideful, treasonous, rebellious, in your face snubs, against the glory of the Creator.
In Peace and Gentleness,
..........Jul Must
All religious and non religious peoples who enshrine the “Human Free Will” platform eventually end up shaking their fist, demanding their freedom from the rule of God. It is a form of sedition which is strongly anchored in the hearts of humankind. The Creator has ordained it to be so for the purposes of our spiritual growth. It is a big step to be given the Light so as to lay it down.
When I began to see how truly awful the “Human Free Will” worldview is, it became to me as one of the most prideful, treasonous, rebellious, in your face snubs, against the glory of the Creator.
In Peace and Gentleness,
..........Jul Must
tbuitendyk
New member
Work is an Act, but Act is not necessarily a Work. Work is a subtype of Act; as Faith is a subtype of Act. The subtypes Faith and Work do not overlap. It's simple logic.
I can see that you can't see my point -- but don't worry about it... I was trying to help you, not win an argument. You don't understand what I'm saying, but the good news is that I can live with that.
God bless, t.
beloved57
Well-known member
Work is an Act, but Act is not necessarily a Work. Work is a subtype of Act; as Faith is a subtype of Act. The subtypes Faith and Work do not overlap. It's simple logic.
I can see that you can't see my point -- but don't worry about it... I was trying to help you, not win an argument. You don't understand what I'm saying, but the good news is that I can live with that.
God bless, t.
You teach salvation by works, another gospel see Gal 1:8-9
B57: you have been so far unable to answer challenges on their ground. You have just kept shifting and deploying more and more Bible verses in a manner beacuse of which the quotations were utterly uncomprehensible to me.
I guess from your point of view it is a must - I am clearly condemned to hell, marked by the Mark. Well it seems that I will be in a good company as most of the Christianity of all ages will be there with me, right? Including people that had wonderful personnal relationship with God, people God used to touch multitudes... well, all right.
What is terrible is that this view seems to take my motivation away. I am not responsible in anything in that sense that I could avoid doing that. I was predestined to do every sin I did. The same for every other person. Every act of ours is an illusion - we do not have Great Commission in the sense we believed, because we do not have any true responsibility (other than suffering in hell forever) - if God preordained someone, that person will be saved irrespective of what I do. Why should I do anything then? I forgot - I do not have any choice... everything I do (as a person condemned to hell) is sinful, right, so there is not any difference. Well, that trully is a sad story.
I guess from your point of view it is a must - I am clearly condemned to hell, marked by the Mark. Well it seems that I will be in a good company as most of the Christianity of all ages will be there with me, right? Including people that had wonderful personnal relationship with God, people God used to touch multitudes... well, all right.
What is terrible is that this view seems to take my motivation away. I am not responsible in anything in that sense that I could avoid doing that. I was predestined to do every sin I did. The same for every other person. Every act of ours is an illusion - we do not have Great Commission in the sense we believed, because we do not have any true responsibility (other than suffering in hell forever) - if God preordained someone, that person will be saved irrespective of what I do. Why should I do anything then? I forgot - I do not have any choice... everything I do (as a person condemned to hell) is sinful, right, so there is not any difference. Well, that trully is a sad story.
beloved57
Well-known member
The Gospel is foolishness unto as well !