Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

[Taliesyn]

Sorry beloved57 but I'm compelled by God (according to your own doctrine) to rain on your parade :rain:

If there is no free will there is no sin either.

Extremist Calvinists teach free grace, free salvation ... AND free wrath, free damnation.

To say there is no free will is equal to saying there is no such thing as human moral nature.
Morality can ONLY apply to those possessing volition, choice.

No free will means the author of this thread did not write it himself freely but was constrained to do so.
It thus also implies that no one else responding does so of their own free will but by "fate" or the "will of God", and that no matter what they say.

Thus how can anyone, at any time, accept the author's point of view? They cannot and reason, logic, scripture have nothing to do with any discussion ever, anywhere. All is "God's will" and nothing else, ever.

The doctrine of no free will is thus a pernicious doctrine of demons for it relieves men from any guilt whatsoever as there can be no guilt without self-determination.

The bible recognizes this everywhere. God ordains human governments and human courts of law based on the FACT of free will.

The Calvinist anti-free will doctrine is utterly foolish, illogical and contra scripture. Those preaching it always contradict themselves by the very preaching of it!

The best refutation of this extremist and unbalanced type of Calvinism was given centuries ago by John Fletcher in his "Checks to Antinomianism" -available online at archive dot org - check it out.

Beloved57 & others interested by the truth, you really need to read it before giving more of such unbiblical, unreasonable, salient falsehoods.

 

[Robert Pate]

This is why I believe this is True !

2 Thess 2:1-4

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Isa 14:13-14

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:


I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Man's own freewill by far is the most believed and popular religious conviction throughout the whole world. Rev 13:1;5-8

1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It's adherents are linked to all the various denominations, and sects, yes, even the non religious adhere to man's freewill.

So John writes Rev 13:16

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

That is all follow this deadly concept or philosophy of man's freewill !

I have been avoiding this thread because I hate to admit that anyone can be so far gone as to write something like this. B57 has been to heresy school and has graduated at the head of his class.

 

[rwe2156]

Calvinism = no free will = NOT TRUE

if you check that you find the reformed view is mans will is depraved, deranged, and derailed.

His nature is corrupted and his will is in bondage to sin.

Only by being regenerated can man choose Christ, and he does so freely, not by coercion, because he WANTS to, in fact, he is compelled by a grace unknown -- an grace that is irresistible.

Only a Calvinist warped by hyper C thinking and determinism will deny free will.

The problem is post modern man simply cannot come to grips with the idea he is not in charge. He worships a God he doesn't know, a God who is sovereign.

A God whose sovereignty knows no limits and does not end where mans free will begins.

So I reiterate: mans will is certainly free, but free only to sin because it is regulated by his sinful nature.




[Q UOTE=Taliesyn;3185683]Sorry beloved57 but I'm compelled by God (according to your own doctrine) to rain on your parade :rain:

If there is no free will there is no sin either.

Extremist Calvinists teach free grace, free salvation ... AND free wrath, free damnation.

To say there is no free will is equal to saying there is no such thing as human moral nature.
Morality can ONLY apply to those possessing volition, choice.

No free will means the author of this thread did not write it himself freely but was constrained to do so.
It thus also implies that no one else responding does so of their own free will but by "fate" or the "will of God", and that no matter what they say.

Thus how can anyone, at any time, accept the author's point of view? They cannot and reason, logic, scripture have nothing to do with any discussion ever, anywhere. All is "God's will" and nothing else, ever.

The doctrine of no free will is thus a pernicious doctrine of demons for it relieves men from any guilt whatsoever as there can be no guilt without self-determination.

The bible recognizes this everywhere. God ordains human governments and human courts of law based on the FACT of free will.

The Calvinist anti-free will doctrine is utterly foolish, illogical and contra scripture. Those preaching it always contradict themselves by the very preaching of it!

The best refutation of this extremist and unbalanced type of Calvinism was given centuries ago by John Fletcher in his "Checks to Antinomianism" -available online at archive dot org - check it out.

Beloved57 & others interested by the truth, you really need to read it before giving more of such unbiblical, unreasonable, salient falsehoods.

[/QUOTE]

 

[beloved57]

tali

If there is no free will there is no sin either.

Please deal with post 220 ! Do you understand what I posted ?

 

[beloved57]

rwe

Calvinism = no free will = NOT TRUE

What I posted in 220 is True, can you prove it wrong from scripture ?

 

[beloved57]

I have been avoiding this thread because I hate to admit that anyone can be so far gone as to write something like this. B57 has been to heresy school and has graduated at the head of his class.

I know you been avoiding it, you should, but it will come up again at the Judgment !

 

[Taliesyn]

tali


Please deal with post 220 ! Do you understand what I posted ?

You merely quoted some scripture in 220, there's nothing to deal with since it has little to do with the topic anyway.

And why in the world are you writing in Kings James English?

 

[Taliesyn]

Calvinism = no free will = NOT TRUE

if you check that you find the reformed view is mans will is depraved, deranged, and derailed.

His nature is corrupted and his will is in bondage to sin.

Only by being regenerated can man choose Christ, and he does so freely, not by coercion, because he WANTS to, in fact, he is compelled by a grace unknown -- an grace that is irresistible.

Only a Calvinist warped by hyper C thinking and determinism will deny free will.

The problem is post modern man simply cannot come to grips with the idea he is not in charge. He worships a God he doesn't know, a God who is sovereign.

A God whose sovereignty knows no limits and does not end where mans free will begins.

So I reiterate: mans will is certainly free, but free only to sin because it is regulated by his sinful nature.

I never said all Calvinists are against free will. The so-called hyper Calvinists certainly are, but others are not.

"Free only to sin"

is not true either as it brings us back to the inevitable consequence that man is no longer a moral agent. No choice = no moral agency.

But that's a different subject.

 

[beloved57]

Will be made the Righteousness of God in Him !

Will be made the Righteousness of God in Him !

2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that or in order that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

That we [The Church, the Called and Chosen] should be made [poieō] the Righteousness of God in Him; and for this cause God purposed that through Death for sin, God condemning the sins of those Christ died for in Christ's Flesh Rom 8:3, and as a Result and fruit thereof, they were to be made [experientially] New Creatures, Living to God for His Eternal Purpose 1 Pet 1:3; and this is to be preached as an achievement of Christ's Work [being made sin], Thats the Message of the Cross that Paul Gloried in Gal 6:14; Even here Paul is expressing the Blessed Effects of the Cross of Christ, for it brings about an crucifixion or separation from this evil world, according to the Will of God Gal 1:4, particularly the evil world of false religion, The evil false religious systems that hated and crucified Christ Jn 15:18-19


18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

 

[Baptist Bob]

Are you for real?

Are you for real?

Dude, are you for real or is this a project for your Sophistry class? People who don't agree with your philosophy are like an alternative to the Antichrist? What are your plans, to declare your town an independent canton, round up some heretics and watch 'em burn???

 

[beloved57]

Dude, are you for real or is this a project for your Sophistry class? People who don't agree with your philosophy are like an alternative to the Antichrist? What are your plans, to declare your town an independent canton, round up some heretics and watch 'em burn???

Can prove anything wrong in post 229 ?

 

[FiveSolas]

Some Seventh Day Adventists teach that meeting on Sunday is the mark of the beast. And now you are teaching that the man of sin is belief in freewill. Wow, what a convenient way to persuade people. Threaten that they will go to hell if they do not believe as you do! And how inflating to the ego. All Christians who believe like you are the elite. The rest of us are all going to hell, even though we have placed our faith in Jesus, because we do not completely agree with you! Don't you realize how much you sound like the leader of a cult? Don't you see how Satan is inflating your flesh in all of this? Can't you see how heretical and sectarian you are being? Christ is not divided! May our Lord Jesus remove the scales from your eyes, so that you may clearly see the body of Christ!

 

[larssc]

I believe in absolute predestination, the Bible teaches it. I guess I would be call HyperCalvinist also.

God does not need our love. We do not have to have free will to glorify God. This Glorification is the reason for our existence.

"God, the great Creator of all things, doth uphold, direct dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by his most wise and holy providence, according to his infallible foreknowledge, and the free and immutable counsel of his own will, to the praise of the glory of his wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy.

II. Although in relation to the foreknowledge and decree of God, the first cause, all things come to pass immutably and infallibly

God from all eternity did by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will,freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin; nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.


III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death."

The above excerpts from the Westminster confession assert both Providence and free-will, but only in the compatibilist sense. It's is ALL God all the time, for His Glory.

Determinism is the way things work. God gives this meanining.

 

[beloved57]

Do you understand post 229 ?

Do you understand post 229 ?

Some Seventh Day Adventists teach that meeting on Sunday is the mark of the beast. And now you are teaching that the man of sin is belief in freewill. Wow, what a convenient way to persuade people. Threaten that they will go to hell if they do not believe as you do! And how inflating to the ego. All Christians who believe like you are the elite. The rest of us are all going to hell, even though we have placed our faith in Jesus, because we do not completely agree with you! Don't you realize how much you sound like the leader of a cult? Don't you see how Satan is inflating your flesh in all of this? Can't you see how heretical and sectarian you are being? Christ is not divided! May our Lord Jesus remove the scales from your eyes, so that you may clearly see the body of Christ!

What about post 229 ? Can you prove it wrong from scripture ?

 

[beloved57]

You merely quoted some scripture in 220, there's nothing to deal with since it has little to do with the topic anyway.

And why in the world are you writing in Kings James English?

If you cannot deal with that post, I have nothing to say unto you, you are all wind and no sail !

 

[beloved57]

lar

III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death."

Do you believe Christ's Death saved all for whom He died ? Do you believe that in any way Christ's died for those predestined to everlasting death ?

 

[Baptist Bob]

Yes, your original "interpretation" of II Thes. 2:3-4 violates one of the first principles of hermeneutics - a text cannot mean today what it has never meant before! What Paul had in his mind was the 16th-21st century debate about free will???? Non-sense!

 

[larssc]

lar



Do you believe Christ's Death saved all for whom He died ? Do you believe that in any way Christ's died for those predestined to everlasting death ?

I'm afraid I don't have a firm answer to that. In the near past I would have said yes to the first, no to the second, which is traditional.

I am lately tending toward a calvinistic-universalism, ultimate reconciliation, with everlasting being not quite that.

I have no special revelation, just the Bible and guided discernment (I hope). God is merciful, loving and just. His will is done.

 

[tbuitendyk]

Dear b57 --

I think I can help... you may have missed Romans 4:5 and become confused, thinking belief is a work:

"But to him that WORKETH NOT, BUT BELIEVETH on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

To believe the gospel is not a work -- it is simply trusting in Jesus' work.

Saying that God commands all to obey the gospel, as the scriptures do, does not imply that God is thereby telling man to WORK for his salvation -- on the contrary, He's telling man to NOT WORK, BUT RATHER BELIEVE.

Jesus: "Repent ye, and believe the gospel!" -- even though they couldn't?!?!?

t.

 

[beloved57]

tb

I think I can help... you may have missed Romans 4:5 and become confused, thinking belief is a work:

No you are no help, and yes believing is a work, something man does !