As Evil pointed out, the Bible tells us to let our 'yes' be yes, and 'no' be no.
So I ask again:
Does God have free will?
A. Yes
B. No
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Free Will
- Thread starter Aetheryn
- Start date
Does God have free will?
A. Yes
B. No
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beloved57
Well-known member
I don't know what you talking about. I don't do bible hopscotch. If you want me to explain my understanding of a scripture, then you need to take the time and effort to explain yours.
beloved57
Well-known member
And I answer again, read my threads.
I, too, do not believe in bible hopscotch. I was raised in a way that was indoctrinated and I had to do much Torah study. I grew up being told to memorize scripture and read it in a way to do so.
Later in life, I rejected the Bible hopscotch based learning that hinged on theological support verses and read without pre conception or agenda.
When I speak, I draw from all scripture as a whole and am always open to learn more.
I have a historical study background and have sought out the supportive documentation to prove the life, death and resurrection of "Jesus".
I am willing to focus on understanding you as you want to be understood, but please understand that I am a difficult person to discuss scripture with because my studies are so extensive. If you think I've been difficult with you, imagine how hard on myself I am.
How shall we proceed?
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Yes or no? If you do not answer me, I'm going to continue on the understanding that you do not believe that God has free will. I do not have time to go back through every single one of your comments/posts to find an answer. All I require is a one word answer. You're being extremely difficult for no reason.
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Beloved will not answer your question because it creates a cognitive dissonance. They utilize a hardcore quote in their signature that says Calvinism IS the gospel.
If you apply the statement that "My God predestines everything" with your statement, it creates a loaded situation which would cause them to question Calvinistic support doctrine.
They associate the internal questioning of their Calvinism beliefs with a falling away from salvation. You will not get a yes or no answer on this matter, because the answer cannot be brought to light in a way that makes them question their belief system.
It is the classic snare that forces Calvinist theologians to skirt around the notion that free will is a cosmic allusion and God determines every single action of the universe through Divine micro managment. If God pre determined every single thing like a play, then God would be the originator of Evil. This is "one" of the ways to place a Calvinist on the defense and force them into core theological protection mode.
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beloved57
Well-known member
From here on out , you want to know what I believe about the God I believe in, read my threads!
I have.
I have gone to your OP's and read through them. This is how I know your theological insinuations when you don't answer questions.
I am not an assumption based person and unfortunately I am a fallible man that takes every opportunity to bolster my debate stance and ability.
Are you again shutting down communication with me?
I am willing to simply listen and severely reduce my opposition, but you have been quite clear on your stances in your OPs.
I also know that when you are frustrated and get backed into a theological corner, you take the "My God" stance.
Is it wrong to come to discussion prepared?
beloved57
Well-known member
If you have read my threads then you should know already what I believe about God.
I am very clear about what you believe about our God.
I have also studied reformed theology, the catechism, the various conclaves to establish our biblical cannon, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Zoroastrian belief, Rastafarianism and many other theological, diological and religious systems.
My single question to you, because you have approached dialogue again is...
How many Son's of God are there that came of the Father?
Obviously the answer is ONE.
This follows with,
Why do you attempt to divide Him by theology, when He is indivisible as Jesus, our Lord and Savior?
As in..... Is Christ divided?
God's Truth
New member
How dare you act like those scriptures about choice do not denote freewill?
You have taken the word enemy in reference to Gentiles and add to God's Word and say it means unbeliever, but you can make no connection whatsoever from the word freewill and chose; and calling someone a liar after they give you the scriptures makes you the liar.
You tell us we are lying when we say we have given you the scriptures to prove we have freewill, yet you are what you accuse us of because you actually add words to what God says about enemies. An enemy does not denote one to be an unbeliever, but chose denotes freewill.
beloved57
Well-known member
Then you know what I believe. Why are you therefore questioning me about what I believe about God? What sense does that make? I very seldom ask people that because for the most part I already have read what they believe!
beloved57
Well-known member
Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies, hating God and opposing Him Rom 5:10!
Initially?
Because you came on the Burning of Jerusalem thread to contest the Jews and their right to Israel and their promises of election.
Lately?
Because you have a quote that places salvation in the hands of John Calvin for your signature, and I wanted to see how far you would go to defend your stance and to what degree you have studied Calvinism.
I also have made friends along this journey that believe God is greater than theology and I have enjoyed discussion on threads with them.
God's Truth
New member
Did you all hear that? Listen to the way he tells untruths about the word 'enemies' and the scripture Romans 5:10. That scriptures says NOTHING about our being reconciled to God while not believing in God and hating Him!
Reconciled while enemies is about the Gentiles who were enemies of God because they were not circumcised in the flesh.
Ephesians 2:12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.
Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,
Jesus did not make the enemies get circumcised first and do what the Jews always did before he would save them. They just had to believe and obey Jesus and repent of their sins.
Read these scriptures:
Ephesians 2:11 Therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles in the flesh and called uncircumcised by the so-called circumcision (that done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
Did you read that?
They were ENEMIES because they did not obey and come into the covenant with God by getting circumcised in the flesh.
Just listen to how Beloved57 makes all kinds of added words to the scripture that says 'enemies' but makes absolutely no connection with chose and freewill!
I'm going to use an analogy from a different theological discussion to show you how you are misinterpreting Scripture.
1. A man marries a woman without giving her a choice and, after bringing her to his home, boards up the windows, and locks all the doors that lead outside. He then tells her to love him because he loves her and would do anything for her. However, the woman hates him, and resists his every advance.
This is the god you believe in. One who brings those to him who don't want to be with him. This god is a sadist, and sick. He is perverse. The God of the Bible (not your god of Calvin) is not like that at all.
2. A man finds a woman, and woos her, winning her over, but always giving her the choice to leave him at any time. She chooses to stay, and eventually they marry, and when the man brings her to their home, he leaves the window unblocked and the doors unlocked. The woman chooses to stay. The man tells her he loves him and that he would do anything for her. The woman tells him that she loves him and would do anything for him.
This is the story God paints in the Bible of how he loves his best creation, man. In the Garden of Eden, God made man, and then planted a tree (the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil) in the center of the garden and pointed at it and said, "I love you, but if you choose to not love Me, there's the door. I won't keep you here if you don't want to be here fellowshipping with Me." In the same way, God will not bring those who hate him into Heaven. It would be their Hell.
Calvin (and his followers) believed that analogy 1 describes God.
Open theists believe analogy 2 describes God.
Which makes more sense?
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beloved57
Well-known member
Read my threads!
beloved57
Well-known member
Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies, hating God and opposing Him Rom 5:10. Look up the word enemies in Rom 5:10
Judge Rightly,
I cannot claim to be an open theist, as I do not ascribe to all of its ideas, but I recognize when someone knows the voice of the Good Shepherd, and you are extremely guilty of that.
Knowing His voice, I mean.
: )
Jamie Gigliotti
New member
That did nothing to rationalize away "all men".
All can not mean some.
God places responsibility upon us to subjugate ourselves to Him. And He states He will judge accordingly.
Attempts to rationalize away this responsibility and indulge the flesh will only bring destruction. Calvinism is the ultimate in irresponsibility. It ignores the truth.
"Do not be deceived. God can not be mocked. A man reaps what he sows." Galatians 6:7
Note it doesn't say he reaps what God makes him sow.