ECT Forgiving and Forgiveness

[God's Truth]

Your attempt at reading my mind and guessing at my motives sadly falls flat.

You told me yourself what you believe.

Like everyone else, I cherry-pick the scriptures I like and believe and leave behind those that are not true to the real Jesus.

See, you just admitted it.

A soldier in Baghdad would never think of picking a verse of Jesus saying "Love your enemies."

The soldier can love his enemy.

A believer like yourself would never think of picking out and respecting the teachings of Jesus that stress the non-judgment of others.

You do not even see that you make yourself a hypocrite and false judge.

To naively claim some special knowledge of the Bible is a fool's errand. I myself am perfectly willing to be accountable for my own wrong-headedness, racism, bigotry or spiritual faults. But I dare say we will never hear such things from you. And that is just sad.

Jesus says he reveals himself to those who obey his teachings. Believe and obey Jesus and you can find the Truth too.

 

[aikido7]

You told me yourself what you believe.

I said that I am a Christian who takes Jesus seriously because I see him as the definitive revelation of God on earth. I have said variations of this several times but you seem uninterested in actually confronting and discussing this specific posting.

See, you just admitted it.

I admit to believing in a Jesus that walks his talk--not the one who will slaughter the unfaithful in the last days so that the level of spilled blood reaches to the level of his horse's bridle for a distance of 200 miles.

I believe in the Jesus who stood fast against the Roman Empire and died for his vision. I don't believe in the Jesus who sanctions all of the horrific actions of today's American Empire.

I believe in the Jesus who counseled against hypocrisy and praying ostentatiously in public as most Christians do.

The soldier can love his enemy.

A soldier is not supposed to. That's why we have basic training and boot camp. We have to train our young people to kill others without a second thought. I went to prison in Wyoming because I declared myself a conscientious objector because of my faith. I knew full well what would happen to my heart and my Christian ethics if I went into the draft.

You do not even see that you make yourself a hypocrite and false judge.

I see my shortcomings, hypocrisy, bigotry, racism and thoughtlessness constantly. That is my job since I have known Jesus. I am accountable for my sins and will not put myself arrogantly above any other human being.

Jesus says he reveals himself to those who obey his teachings. Believe and obey Jesus and you can find the Truth too.

Theological and dogmatic balderdash. You need to come down out of the sky and start talking practically and realistically about helping God establish the kingdom on earth.

Believe? Obey? Every person on TOL has a different idea of what these two words mean when we consider Jesus. How did you come to miss that truth?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I admit to believing in a Jesus that walks his talk--not the one who will slaughter the unfaithful in the last days so that the level of spilled blood reaches to the level of his horse's bridle for a distance of 200 miles.

I believe in the Jesus who stood fast against the Roman Empire and died for his vision. I don't believe in the Jesus who sanctions all of the horrific actions of today's American Empire.

You're what they call an "Oddball."

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

A7, what church or cult are you affiliated with? I'll bet you won't answer. You
types usually don't.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

While; to post that Matthew plagiarized Mark, and then some; the Spirit is Cousin "it," and so on is "Christian."

Give me a break, child of the Devil.

I really don't believe A7 is a "True Believer."

 

[chrysostom]

You're what they call an "Oddball."

A7, what church or cult are you affiliated with? I'll bet you won't answer. You
types usually don't.

I really don't believe A7 is a "True Believer."

great thought provoking posts grosnick

 

[aikido7]

You're what they call an "Oddball."

Those who have not learned to communicate like an adult are those who name-call and mock.

They really can't help it. It is a reflex learned from their own family upbringing.

You probably maybe should have said something like 'When you posted "X" I felt it sounded odd because you expressed it like "Y." '

That way, instead of projecting your discomfort onto others, you can learn to be responsible for your feelings and figure out ways to express them in a mature and reasonable manner.

 

[aikido7]

I really don't believe A7 is a "True Believer."

I don't believe you can read my mind or my soul. And so far you have done a lousy job of guessing at my motives and intentions.

What Old Testament God pumped up your immature hydraulics?

 

[chrysostom]

I don't believe you can read my mind or my soul. And so far you have done a lousy job of guessing at my motives and intentions.

but we do have to guess at what your beliefs are

 

[aikido7]

Perhaps it was your "Evil Twin?"

I don't think you can accept facts, honest data and historical evidence when it comes to our Christian tradition. You take the faith's sacred metaphorical language as factual. Any information about what scholars and theologians have been telling us for a little less than 300 years provokes a childish reactivity.

If it doesn't jibe with what authoritarian and obedience-based church leaders have told you, you are just unable or unwilling to understand.

Jesus was a man who preached what he called the Kingdom of God in parables.

That is a statement of FACT.

Jesus was the Son of God who died for our sins.

That is a statement of FAITH.

Facts are not faith and faith is not facts. They belong to different domains of classification.

 

[aikido7]

but we do have to guess at what your beliefs are

But why guess and then make a judgement on that guess?

For gosh sakes, just ask me directly.

 

[aikido7]

A7, what church or cult are you affiliated with? I'll bet you won't answer. You
types usually don't.

I did already. If you read my posts with the same inattention that you read the Bible, then we are in trouble, aren't we?

 

[chrysostom]

But why guess and then make a judgement on that guess?

For gosh sakes, just ask me directly.

do you say the Our Father?

 

[chrysostom]

What do you say?

this thread is not going away thanks to

God's Truth 331
Grosnick Marowbe 255

 

[God's Truth]

I said that I am a Christian who takes Jesus seriously because I see him as the definitive revelation of God on earth. I have said variations of this several times but you seem uninterested in actually confronting and discussing this specific posting.

You do not take Jesus seriously because you do not believe His written word, and you do not believe in obeying the written word.

I admit to believing in a Jesus that walks his talk--not the one who will slaughter the unfaithful in the last days so that the level of spilled blood reaches to the level of his horse's bridle for a distance of 200 miles.

You have made for yourself a different Jesus and have brought doubt and suspicion to his word.

I believe in the Jesus who stood fast against the Roman Empire and died for his vision. I don't believe in the Jesus who sanctions all of the horrific actions of today's American Empire.

I believe in the Jesus who counseled against hypocrisy and praying ostentatiously in public as most Christians do.

A soldier is not supposed to. That's why we have basic training and boot camp. We have to train our young people to kill others without a second thought. I went to prison in Wyoming because I declared myself a conscientious objector because of my faith. I knew full well what would happen to my heart and my Christian ethics if I went into the draft.

We wouldn't have the U.S.A if all were as you. You can love your enemy and end his life too.

Romans 13:4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

I see my shortcomings, hypocrisy, bigotry, racism and thoughtlessness constantly. That is my job since I have known Jesus. I am accountable for my sins and will not put myself arrogantly above any other human being.

You would know how to get rid of these sinful things if you loved Jesus. We love Jesus by obeying Jesus.

1 John 5:3 Love for God means obedience to His commands; and His commands are not irksome.

Theological and dogmatic balderdash. You need to come down out of the sky and start talking practically and realistically about helping God establish the kingdom on earth.

You are hindering people from being saved, if not straight out preventing them from becoming saved.

Believe? Obey? Every person on TOL has a different idea of what these two words mean when we consider Jesus. How did you come to miss that truth?

I prove my beliefs by the written Word of God. You prove your beliefs by taking away the Word of God.

 

[God's Truth]

I don't believe you can read my mind or my soul. And so far you have done a lousy job of guessing at my motives and intentions.

Jesus says we can know what is in a person's heart.

Luke 6:45 A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.

 

[Danoh]

You insult me and then defend me, but you do not want me to defend myself from you?

Dear woman, my strong words to you are not meant as an insult. While, other times I am joking with you just to lighten up all the seriousness - you need to "Oh how I love God's Word" just a bit more - you are far too serious, and that is never "good for the soul."

 

[God's Truth]

Dear woman, my strong words to you are not meant as an insult. While, other times I am joking with you just to lighten up all the seriousness - you need to "Oh how I love God's Word" just a bit more - you are far too serious, and that is never "good for the soul."

You are not qualified to judge me. You should work on stopping yourself.

 

[Danoh]

What we moderns call "plagiarism" was an unknown thing in Jesus' day. Those who study ancient authors know this, many biblical scholars know this and even more and more of us in the pews know this.

If you read the gospels in parallel, it becomes clear that Luke and Matthew follow Mark's order of events, but each of them alters and edits Mark's gospel in their own creative and inspired ways.

Bible study is actually "Studying the Bible." I think it is pretty shameful for you to make comments like that. You know full well what I am saying. It is more comfortable for you to point your finger at me instead of actually checking out what I am posting.

No excuse.

You're right; I do know full well what you are saying. And it is error through and through, on your part.

Its your approach that is off; not the passages.

Just finished reading the book, The Jesus Papers. Highly intelligent author, very well educated on the setting and culture the Bible's writings took place in, and all the rest.

And yet, not a clue in his otherwise highly intelligent mind, as to why the various passages appear to contradict one another.

His approach? Yours.

More books, and scholars, and diggings of old ruins, and what not... ever in search of what is plainly right in front of him...

Just before that, I'd read the book, Christ: A Crisis in the Life of God.

Same end result; blinded by all the above, from what is plainly right in the text itself; when properly approached.

At first, this appears odd; this practice of theirs.

Fact of the matter is that it is just a matter of applying all that supposed willingness to finding a means of entry into the text itself, to attempting to, through the text itself.

Itself not always a simple matter of "if this, then this," but surmountable, nevertheless, and without having to twist a text to what we might want it to conform.

One cannot but suspect theirs is the same old ways of men in their own conceits.

"The Greeks seek after wisdom" noted the Apostle Paul, disdainfully.

Yours too, is their same...Scholastic Mysticism.

Believe it or not, I like you. For the Aikido name, and all that kind of thing has represent in my own life.

Doesn't mean I will compromise where I find you are way "off base."

 

[Danoh]

You are not qualified to judge me. You should work on stopping yourself.

On that you and I - and an apparently ever growing line of others - will have continue to disagree.