ECT Forgiving and Forgiveness

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Wow, that was ignorant. We ALL have to believe that Jesus is the Christ.

You overlook the fact that the Bible teaches that those who believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, receive life by being born of God when they believe that truth:

"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:31).​

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God...For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1,4,5).​

Those who believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, are saved apart from believing that the Lord Jesus died for our sins.
 

IMJerusha

New member
Prove it! Next, you will be calling me a liar in the hope that no one will notice that you do not even attempt to answer the verses which I quote to prove that your ideas are false!

Jerry, you're going to have to explain yourself to me here. Unless I've missed a post of yours to me, I haven't a clue what you are talking about. I also don't call people liars. That's not my MO.
 

meshak

BANNED
Banned
Not at all. I've asked this question so many times now and never gotten a straightforward answer. How does one go about rightly dividing the Word of God?

Rightly dividing means simply harmonizing with the rest of the Scripture, especially going along with Jesus' word.
 

IMJerusha

New member
Yes, I did.
No, I believe and use the KJB as it defines terms allowing us to know what it is we are to rightly divide and how.

No, you didn't. What you did was use your doctrine to define Scripture.
You are aware that the translators of the KJB instructed people to seek out other translations as well to protect against bias? How do you know you are rightly dividing?...especially when you dismiss so much Scripture as non-applicable to you or to the BoC. Tell me how anyone can cast division within the Body and indeed within Yeshua and still believe they are rightly dividing?
 

Danoh

New member
That does not make sense. If I want all the sins I ever did to be washed away,...if I want Jesus to live in my heart,...if I want to have the Helper and Comforter,...if I want Jesus to intervene for me,...then I have to be washed with his blood.

That right there is the very core of your Roman Catholic/Pentecostal/Church of Christ/And Countless Other Cults... problem...this notion of yours as to "all the sins I ever did..."

People are not lost because of all the sins they ever did, rather they are lost because they are sinners; because they are born in the trespass of Adam's transgression, Romans 5:

12. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

The course of this world - sin - entered into the world.

1 Corinthians 15:

21. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

There is the issue; born in Adam.

Ephesians 2:

1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, [by grace ye are saved;]

Our sins [plural] only attest to our sin [singular] by nature; our sin nature, by virtue of the fact that we are all born in Adam.

What we need is to be "quickened together with Christ."

Wash away all your sins all you want; tomorrow you'll be on your GT Treadmill all over again.

What we need is that rest described in Hebrews 10's:

12. But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

What we need, is not your vain self-deceit in this issue.

Rather; the truth of Colossians 2's:

8. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11. In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12. Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14. Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15. And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Then, He went off into Glory and showed it off before all creation.

Only to have you come along and assert, in your ignorance that its about all the sins you ever did.

If that is the case; give up; tomorrow you will certainly screw up.

And when you give up, then you'll be ready to rest in His finished work.

Then, and only then will you be able to "obey Jesus" not as you continue to assert that obedience is, rather; as His Word asserts, this side of the Mystery of the Gospel - of Christ in you; the Hope of Glory!
 

IMJerusha

New member
:chuckle: The dispensation of the grace of God was given to Paul to usward!

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Chuckle away but you put too much into Paul's words. He's talking about the fact that Yeshua filled him in on everything He had already taught, and he is talking about the Grace God dispensed to him as He does all believers through Yeshua, which is the Gift of His Son, the hope of salvation. Paul, being a well-learned Pharisee, knew that believing Gentiles were already fellow heirs in God's Promises, just as if they had been native born. Of course, being believers, those Gentiles would be partakers of God's promise through Yeshua if they accepted Him as their Messiah. God's Grace has always existed and He has always lavished it on mankind.
 

IMJerusha

New member
Excellent Scripture choices. There are at least two posters on this
thread that will dispute what Paul is saying! I won't post their names
but, they're Jerry S. and IMJ.

Actually, what I dispute is your interpretation of Paul's words, not Paul's words themselves. I can't speak for Jerry.
I agree with Peter in that Paul's "letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:16 It is my desire to "grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior." 2 Peter 3:17 To do that, I rely on the Ruach in conjunction with all of God's Word, not just bits and pieces.
 

Danoh

New member
Chuckle away but you put too much into Paul's words. He's talking about the fact that Yeshua filled him in on everything He had already taught, and he is talking about the Grace God dispensed to him as He does all believers through Yeshua, which is the Gift of His Son, the hope of salvation. Paul, being a well-learned Pharisee, knew that believing Gentiles were already fellow heirs in God's Promises, just as if they had been native born. Of course, being believers, those Gentiles would be partakers of God's promise through Yeshua if they accepted Him as their Messiah. God's Grace has always existed and He has always lavished it on mankind.

No; he is talking about the grace of God given him to others.

And Heir and I will not see the following the same, but, other than the fact that the Cross also made the Mystery that Paul preached possible, said Mystery has nothing to do with what was prophesied. You are confusing what was prophesied concerning the Gentiles - God's Prophesied Purpose concerning the Earth, Acts 3:21 - you are confusing that with what was not prophesied - God's Mystery Purpose concerning Heavenly principalities, Ephesians 3.
 

IMJerusha

New member
I fear you have some sort of mental disability GT? I hope I'm wrong.

GT, have you ever been evaluated for any form of mental disorder? Your behavior on this forum is very suspicious.

This is a perfect example of what I was concerned about. You reversed
my serious inquiry about your possible mental disturbance. I don't know
if you even realized it?

Please tell me how your goading, demeaning, belittling words represent Yeshua? I would very much like to see Yeshua in you but when you and others post like this, He's just not in it.
 

IMJerusha

New member
No; he is talking about the grace of God given him to others.

And Heir and I will not see the following the same, but, other than the fact that the Cross also made the Mystery that Paul preached possible, said Mystery has nothing to do with what was prophesied. You are confusing what was prophesied concerning the Gentiles - God's Prophesied Purpose concerning the Earth, Acts 3:21 - you are confusing that with what was not prophesied - God's Mystery Purpose concerning Heavenly principalities, Ephesians 3.


That's MAD interpretation of Paul's words, not what Paul meant. The mystery Paul spoke of wasn't anything different than had already been made known to the believing world in both the Prophets as well as through Yeshua's teaching. That mystery is the Love of a Holy God for an unholy people.
 
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