Fast Food workers protest and demand more money.

[rexlunae]

I approve of the right to leave one's money to one's relatives, even if they are undeserving wretches!
The interesting thing is that the stupid rich will soon be the stupid poor.

Not really. There are people in this country with enough wealth that many generations that follow could become a permanent pseudo-gentry without ever achieving anything of their own. What kind of justice is that?

I have been poor, really poor. My parents had a good deal of money but I would never ask them for anything.
That meant I had to make it on my own. I made foolish choices, made honest mistakes and was able to take advantage of some helping hands along the way. Didn't do drugs or drink liquor.

That's great. Did you go to college?

I had been told that if I wrote a bad check I'd go straight to jail so, guess what? I never wrote a bad check!

Because putting someone in jail is a sure-fire way to make sure they pay you back what they owe you.

Sometimes I went without food so that I could pay my bills.

What would you say that did for you?

I had the good fortune to be healthy enough to carry on.

You're right. You were quite lucky. A lot of the people who are poor got that way because of health crises that made it impossible for them to work and that drove them to bankruptcy. We still don't think that health care is a human right.

I lived in a neighborhood for a time where everyone was poor. There was no attitude of entitlement in those days but, there was something else "It doesn't matter if you sock it to the man".
We are now experiencing a large segment of our society living by the principle that it doesn't matter if you "sock it to the man". In fact, our government is "socking it to the man" via taxation and the attitude of entitlement grows like a cancer in the land.

It is several times more expensive for children to get the kind of education that would allow them to secure one of the ever-less-abundant well-paying jobs. This isn't an entitlement attitude. It's the recognition that they system is rigged, and outrage at the unfairness of how fully our society, including our government, caters to the needs of the already-powerful and ignores the voiceless.

 

[TomO]

granite believes chicken is processed by having workers hop into vats of carcasses? :freak:

Dude, you ain't really lived until you've swam with the chickens. :nono:

 

[resurrected]

i'm getting a "seth green does the godfather" kinda vibe



and it worries me :noid:

 

[bybee]

Not really. There are people in this country with enough wealth that many generations that follow could become a permanent pseudo-gentry without ever achieving anything of their own. What kind of justice is that?



That's great. Did you go to college?



Because putting someone in jail is a sure-fire way to make sure they pay you back what they owe you.



What would you say that did for you?



You're right. You were quite lucky. A lot of the people who are poor got that way because of health crises that made it impossible for them to work and that drove them to bankruptcy. We still don't think that health care is a human right.



It is several times more expensive for children to get the kind of education that would allow them to secure one of the ever-less-abundant well-paying jobs. This isn't an entitlement attitude. It's the recognition that they system is rigged, and outrage at the unfairness of how fully our society, including our government, caters to the needs of the already-powerful and ignores the voiceless.

"Life ain't fair!" Going hungry made me lean and sometimes light headed. I became extremely careful in how I allocated my resources such as they were.
Are you suggesting that people should get away with writing bad checks? How about you write me a big fat check and then I don't pay it back which results in you going bankrupt and me living in Ireland? That's where I'll go just as soon as you send me the check.

 

[bybee]

Knocking me for "reviling the rich," as though that's some sort of insult, is ridiculous coming from a Christian. Do you have any kind of point to make? I'm serious.

You have been hopelessly and eternally indoctrinated with the progressive crap your college professors poured into your feeding troughs.
You can't see anything but your hatred for the rich.
I'd like to be rich.
You can hate away.
Are you poor by the way?

 

[rexlunae]

"Life ain't fair!"

No, but that doesn't make unfairness a virtue. And we have systemized a fair amount of that.

Going hungry made me lean and sometimes light headed. I became extremely careful in how I allocated my resources such as they were.

Seems like being lightheaded makes it a lot harder to try to live a useful and fulfilling life.

Are you suggesting that people should get away with writing bad checks?

I'm suggesting that throwing someone in jail is completely counterproductive in terms of helping a person live up to their financial responsibilities.

How about you write me a big fat check and then I don't pay it back which results in you going bankrupt and me living in Ireland? That's where I'll go just as soon as you send me the check.

Is that a credit application? Because I'm pretty sure I would have to pull a credit report to consider it. And, you know, be a bank.

 

[Skybringr]

i find it curious that you don't see those demanding more money as being greedy :think:

I know plenty of people working in the food industry. They work sweat to brow all week, have limited resources which makes it very hard to find anything better, and even though they try to hide it, are desperate for money.

That's not greed. Greed is having formidable income, a nice house and a secured legacy, and yet complaining about people wanting higher wages.
It's as simple as that.

The simple fact is Jesus was the champion of the poor and wouldn't be siding with people doing such.

Jesus said it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle then a rich man entering the kingdom.

I'll take his word over a wealthy conservative's ethic :idunno:

 

[resurrected]

I know plenty of people working in the food industry. They work sweat to brow all week, have limited resources which makes it very hard to find anything better, and even though they try to hide it, are desperate for money.

That's not greed. Greed is having formidable income, a nice house and a secured legacy, and yet complaining about people wanting higher wages.
It's as simple as that.

The simple fact is Jesus was the champion of the poor and wouldn't be siding with people doing such.

Jesus said it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle then a rich man entering the kingdom.

I'll take his word over a wealthy conservative's ethic :idunno:

i've done this before, but once more


looks like minimum wage in nys is $8/hour

$8 x 40 hours/week = $320/week

figure take home's gonna be 80% of that, so $256/week

$256/week x 4.33 weeks/month = $1108/month

now, in new york that qualifies you for food stamps, so we won't figure any grocery costs

get a cheap three room apartment in a crummy section of town with two other people and figure you'll be paying $300/month towards rent

lose the smart phone

lose the internet and cable

forget about a car - you can't afford upkeep and insurance

get a bus pass

shop thrift stores and walmart sales for your clothing and necessaries

and bank $500/month - that'll add up to $6000/year that you will eventually use as a down payment on a house


meanwhile, you're taking courses at your local community college in a certification program leading to training and a certification in something that's in demand - home health aide, certified nursing assistant, lab assistant


you'll be too busy to whine about how unfair life is :thumb:

 

[Caledvwlch]

i've done this before, but once more


looks like minimum wage in nys is $8/hour

$8 x 40 hours/week = $320/week

figure take home's gonna be 80% of that, so $256/week

$256/week x 4.33 weeks/month = $1108/month

now, in new york that qualifies you for food stamps, so we won't figure any grocery costs

get a cheap three room apartment in a crummy section of town with two other people and figure you'll be paying $300/month towards rent

lose the smart phone

lose the internet and cable

forget about a car - you can't afford upkeep and insurance

get a bus pass

shop thrift stores and walmart sales for your clothing and necessaries

and bank $500/month - that'll add up to $6000/year that you will eventually use as a down payment on a house


meanwhile, you're taking courses at your local community college in a certification program leading to training and a certification in something that's in demand - home health aide, certified nursing assistant, lab assistant


you'll be too busy to whine about how unfair life is :thumb:

I think your rent estimation might be a bit low.

And did you factor in the cost of the community college certification program? Just from personal experience, CCNA training was in the neighborhood of $5000, but thankfully my company covered most of it, and I'm not minimum wage.

 

[resurrected]

I think your rent estimation might be a bit low.

And did you factor in the cost of the community college certification program? Just from personal experience, CCNA training was in the neighborhood of $5000, but thankfully my company covered most of it, and I'm not minimum wage.

up here they have financial aid available for many of the programs i mentioned - also for skilled trades training - welding, electrician, plumbing...

i just mentioned entry level health care because it's my field



and of course, rent is going to depend on location

up here in nny, in the county that is the biggest in the state and has the highest poverty rates, a three bedroom apartment would run around $400/ month, away from the college towns and the resort areas

:think: probably about the same in the heart of the ghetto back in rochester

 

[Caledvwlch]

up here they have financial aid available for many of the programs i mentioned - also for skilled trades training - welding, electrician, plumbing...

i just mentioned entry level health care because it's my field



and of course, rent is going to depend on location

up here in nny, in the county that is the biggest in the state and has the highest poverty rates, a three bedroom apartment would run around $400/ month, away from the college towns and the resort areas

:think: probably about the same in the heart of the ghetto back in rochester

I suppose I am speaking from an area with relatively high property values. But there's also the electric bill and heating costs. Sure, you could skip the car, but the closer you are to a place with robust public transportation, the higher the rent is going to be.

 

[resurrected]

I suppose I am speaking from an area with relatively high property values. But there's also the electric bill and heating costs. Sure, you could skip the car, but the closer you are to a place with robust public transportation, the higher the rent is going to be.

not in the heart of rochester

man, i wouldn't want to be a driver on one of those routes - i drove school bus one year through those neighborhoods and there's a good reason rent is so low

 

[rexlunae]

get a cheap three room apartment in a crummy section of town with two other people and figure you'll be paying $300/month towards rent

What if you don't have any potential roommates? What if you have kids and need more space?

lose the smart phone

lose the internet and cable

Two of the three of those are actually pretty hard to dispense with, because they tend to be gateways to opportunity for advancement.

forget about a car - you can't afford upkeep and insurance

get a bus pass

That may work for some, won't work for others.

shop thrift stores and walmart sales for your clothing and necessaries

...and hope that you don't get a job that requires you to dress well.

 

[resurrected]

What if you don't have any potential roommates?

craigslist

What if you have kids and need more space?

make 'em share your bedroom

and stop having more kids until you become financially stable

Two of the three of those are actually pretty hard to dispense with, because they tend to be gateways to opportunity for advancement.

nonsense - people have become hooked on them and are addicted to them

throw 'em out the window

That may work for some, won't work for others.

then walk :idunno:

...and hope that you don't get a job that requires you to dress well.

we're talking about flipping burgers here

 

[Lighthouse]

Can somebody explain to me what's wrong with the brains of these idiots who think an effect on the price of products and employment would be immediate?

:loser:ighthouse

Giving Lighthouse an annual raise is self-defeating; it's a losing battle. Otherwise he wouldn't need to keep increasing it. lain:

Giving me an annual raise would be unnecessary, which means my wage wouldn't need to keep increasing.

But your argument is self defeating because you're trying to discuss the raise of an individual person that has little to no effect on the economy overall. Whereas raising the minimum wage raises the wages of millions of people at once and thereby has a definite effect on prices.

:up:
The problem with America is it's hidden aristocracy. The one who controls the money is greater then a king.

You're a moron.

In another thread, I went through all of the instances where we raised the minimum wage, and determined the double-delta, i.e. the change in the rate of change of the unemployment rate. And you know what? Exactly half of the time, when we raise the minimum wage, the double-delta was positive. And the other half of the time, it was negative.

Minimum wage does not cause unemployment in any evident way.

The effect isn't immediate.:dunce::duh:

The conservative right simply just make excuses sometimes.

The problem is extremely simple, and the whole world knows it: ~yall greedy~

I'm greedy? Is that why I'm not even the slightest bit rich?

(Lighthouse, seeing the facts, changes his story a bit)

I didn't change anything, simpleton.

In previous raises of minimum wage, there's no evidence of all for an increase in underemployment. So that story doesn't work either.

There's certainly no immediate effect, so your charts are useless.

It is a stupid argument. But notice It's not mine. It's the argument of many who oppose a minimum wage hike. In fact, as you can see, there's no detectable effect on general unemployment after minimum wage hikes, either.

See above.

However, if you look at how increases in minimum wage affect GDP:

You lose on that one, too. I keep thinking that you will eventually realize that you should check reality before you lecture us on it.

Do you have anything that shows the effect over time for the years after an increase?

Hint: there's a reason that five years after the last one people are demanding another.

But you never do. You are remarkably poor at learning from experience.

I stand on this side of this issue because of what I have learned from my experience.

I don't think calling names is going to raise your credibility here. You should disabuse yourself of the idea that reality has to be what you hope it is.

You're still a moron.

nobody's saying that

and thus, a strawman :idunno:

And like the most famous straw man of all Granite has no brain.

i'm getting a "seth green does the godfather" kinda vibe

and it worries me :noid:

:chuckle:

 

[Granite]

You have been hopelessly and eternally indoctrinated with the progressive crap your college professors poured into your feeding troughs.

:yawn:

You can't see anything but your hatred for the rich.

No, not at all. But I don't think slobbering over and automatically admiring the wealthy at the expense of the people they exploit's a very good look. Put another way: Given a choice between sympathizing between the poor and the wealthy, I'll choose poor every time.

When exactly did Christians become cheerleaders for the rich?

As a country we seem star-struck by the wealthy, and frankly it's grotesque.

I'd like to be rich.

Lottery tickets are cheap.

 

[resurrected]

Given a choice between sympathizing between the poor and the wealthy, I'll choose poor every time.

given a choice between sympathizing for those who work hard, sacrifice and are successful, and those who waste opportunities, make poor choices and fail, you go for the self-inflicted losers? :freak:


well, i suppose you feel a kinship with them :idunno:

 

[rexlunae]

craigslist

Not always a great option.

make 'em share your bedroom

Or maybe just make the owner of their place of employ give up one of his seven private jets. That seems more reasonable.

and stop having more kids until you become financially stable

I'm sure that next you're going to passionately argue for the universal, free access to birth control.

nonsense - people have become hooked on them and are addicted to them

None-the-less, they open doors.

then walk :idunno:

Also, not always an option.

we're talking about flipping burgers here

Or working retail. Or going to a job interview for just about anything else.

I don't see why we should expect the employees of profitable companies to make all the sacrifices.

 

[Caledvwlch]

...those who work hard, sacrifice and are successful

You're only talking about a small subset of the wealthy.

 

[The Berean]

i've done this before, but once more


looks like minimum wage in nys is $8/hour

$8 x 40 hours/week = $320/week

figure take home's gonna be 80% of that, so $256/week

$256/week x 4.33 weeks/month = $1108/month

now, in new york that qualifies you for food stamps, so we won't figure any grocery costs

get a cheap three room apartment in a crummy section of town with two other people and figure you'll be paying $300/month towards rent

lose the smart phone

lose the internet and cable

forget about a car - you can't afford upkeep and insurance

get a bus pass

shop thrift stores and walmart sales for your clothing and necessaries

and bank $500/month - that'll add up to $6000/year that you will eventually use as a down payment on a house


meanwhile, you're taking courses at your local community college in a certification program leading to training and a certification in something that's in demand - home health aide, certified nursing assistant, lab assistant


you'll be too busy to whine about how unfair life is :thumb:

Don't forget machining and welding!