Fast Food workers protest and demand more money.

[aikido7]

No one has a gun to their heads.

They are free to quit and work somewhere else that pays more.

Or, they could work hard and hope for a promotion that pays more.

You liberals/Socialists have a really hard time with this concept.

tetelestai--

I am not a socialist nor a "liberal." And neither am I a capitalist. These labels for economic/political systems are leftover bankrupt terms from the 19th century.

But I am old enough and aware enough to know that getting hired in a new field for decent money is next to impossible. I am basing my view on what I have read, what I have seen and what has taken place with my stepkids and grandchildren.

Once you can connect to a real world living example--instead of what to some people are political talking points and inability to feel empathy for others--it's hard to describe what is really happening in real time.

 

[resurrected]

There is no virtue in this austerity attitude.

these guys disagree

 

[bybee]

And if people thought that way 100 years ago, we'd still have 7 day work weeks, 12 hour workdays, child labor and people injured and dying from unsafe working conditions.

The interests of the employer are not always the interests of the workers. If workers don't organize, they can be abused by unscrupulous employers. In a way the pendulum has swung the other way, there need to be more protests, not fewer.

Minimum wage workers are supported by government programs. Many companies that pay minimum wage could afford to pay workers more.

A safe work environment is mandated by the government. That is essential.
We provide health care and free lunches in our schools in Minnesota.
Yes, people must sometimes band together for the common good.
If a living wage is affordable then it makes sense.
I wonder if any of you realize how difficult it is for small businesses to succeed? With taxes, licensing, insurances, OSHA tyrants, IRS gratuitous auditing, employees who deliberately break company equipment, steal and slander it is a calculated risk to even bother opening the doors. Yet, small businesses are often the employers of people who cannot get jobs with the larger companies.

 

[bybee]

:yawn:



No, not at all. But I don't think slobbering over and automatically admiring the wealthy at the expense of the people they exploit's a very good look. Put another way: Given a choice between sympathizing between the poor and the wealthy, I'll choose poor every time.

When exactly did Christians become cheerleaders for the rich?

As a country we seem star-struck by the wealthy, and frankly it's grotesque.



Lottery tickets are cheap.

So are your shots!

 

[rexlunae]

They do, no one has to accept a job offer. If you agreed to a certain wage, you agreed.

Gotta work to eat. It's not as if it's a completely free choice, and it's silly to pretend that it is. For a lot of people, work is mandatory, and they can't necessarily get a job that pays more than minimum.

If what you agree to, doesn't pay your way, you get a second job, a roommate, mow grass, do odd jobs, go to school on a grant- or work really hard at the job you accepted and move up to make more $.

Or...we could just insist that all these companies that already make a ton of money pay enough that you don't have to do that. Seems only reasonable to me. Lets see, that's a few million low-wage workers who will have a better life, versus the larger numbers on a multi-billionaire's bank account. The former seems to have more inherent value to me.

A fast food job isnt designed to support a family.

Then it shouldn't exist. All jobs should be expected to meet certain minimum standards. If they do not, they are exploitative, which is one step shy of slavery.

Oh and for the brainiac in this thread who said if they cant pay what people need to support a family they shouldn't be in business, what kind of idiot thinks any solution is to have less business?

I suppose we could just bring back slavery too. Think of all the business that would produce!

 

[resurrected]

All jobs should be expected to meet certain minimum standards.

as i've shown, a minimum wage job is sufficient to support a single person

why would you expect it to do more than that?

 

[Alate_One]

A safe work environment is mandated by the government. That is essential.

Only because workers demanded it and in some cases died which brought public attention to the problem.

Governments, and humans in general, tend to respond to a crisis rather than being proactive.

We provide health care and free lunches in our schools in Minnesota.
Yes, people must sometimes band together for the common good.
If a living wage is affordable then it makes sense.
I wonder if any of you realize how difficult it is for small businesses to succeed? With taxes, licensing, insurances, OSHA tyrants, IRS gratuitous auditing, employees who deliberately break company equipment, steal and slander it is a calculated risk to even bother opening the doors. Yet, small businesses are often the employers of people who cannot get jobs with the larger companies.

Part of that you can blame the pro-big business Republicans for stacking the deck in favor of larger entities (that can give more money).

Rational regulation doesn't come from people that don't believe government needs to do anything.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Gotta work to eat. It's not as if it's a completely free choice, and it's silly to pretend that it is. For a lot of people, work is mandatory, and they can't necessarily get a job that pays more than minimum.

Yes, i know, i once worked 2 jobs making minimum wage untill i was able to find a better job and then i also went to school, shopped with coupons, and at the thrift store- lots of tomato soup, macaroni and cheese and ramen noodles and a real feast on occasion, hamburger helper when the meat was on sale.

Or...we could just insist that all these companies that already make a ton of money pay enough that you don't have to do that. Seems only reasonable to me. Lets see, that's a few million low-wage workers who will have a better life, versus the larger numbers on a multi-billionaire's bank account. The former seems to have more inherent value to me.

Or we can work hard and move up, work 2 jobs, get roomates and get a better education and change desired fields of work and get an education in them - move to an area where there are more jobs, etc.

Instead of insisting i deserve the same wages flipping a burger as someone who climbs telephone poles and puts their life at risk for example.

Then it shouldn't exist. All jobs should be expected to meet certain minimum standards. If they do not, they are exploitative, which is one step shy of slavery.

Hello, its called a minimum wage, thats whats happening now.

Those jobs are not designed to support a family, sorry.

I suppose we could just bring back slavery too. Think of all the business that would produce!

Think of all the jobs we wont have, if you nuts keep acting like you dont get that some jobs are not designed to be career moves and entry level jobs vanish because of the idiot thoughts that if you dont pay what someone demands, you shouldnt have a business at all.

 

[Alate_One]

as i've shown, a minimum wage job is sufficient to support a single person

why would you expect it to do more than that?

Because about 1/3 of minimum wage workers are single parents?

Or do you not believe in supporting children?

 

[resurrected]

Because about 1/3 of minimum wage workers are single parents?

Or do you not believe in supporting children?

again, my scenario had the unskilled worker banking $500/month

 

[bybee]

I did go to college. When my fifth child was two years old we decided that we could use more money to help our kids. I got a job at Butterworth Hospital in Grand Rapids Michigan as a Ward Secretary. I worked the 3p to 1130p shift so that the baby sitter was kept to a minimum.
While I worked at the bottom of the totem pole I realized that I wanted more out of myself so I enrolled in the local junior college and began taking one class at a time. My husband paid for my education. Eventually I earned a Bachelor of Science degree in nursing whilst simultaneously caring for teenage kids and helping my husband to establish his small business.
I worked like a dog to get that degree and I have the diploma hanging on the wall to the right of my computer.
Our parents did not help us. We didn't ask them and they could have.
The government didn't help us.
We experienced several of life's low economic blows which wiped us out and put us back to square one. Sometimes our belts were pulled so tight we could hardly breathe.
I am now 77 years old and my family sometimes helps me out with chores.
I am too proud to whine!
I am too proud to say "Poor me"!
I am too proud to be a victim!
I have never destroyed someone else's property.
I would steal a loaf of bread to feed my family if I had to.
I am entitled to what I have earned.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Because about 1/3 of minimum wage workers are single parents?

Or do you not believe in supporting children?

Weird logic. Its the mothers responsibility to support her children, job criteria doesn't include paying different wages dependent on how many kids you have.

Its a persons responsibility to see that they do what they need to do to do that.

If that means she gets assistance till she can finish school on a grant and get a better job, she can certainly do that in this country.

And before you say she cant go to school because of her child, well she could go to that fast food job that you think should pay a ridiculous wage for that kind of work, so she has someone watching them, no?

 

[resurrected]

"to each according to his need"


seems familiar :think:

 

[Angel4Truth]

again, my scenario had the unskilled worker banking $500/month

Facts dont matter, logic doesnt matter, flipping a burger should support as many in your family as you have, and wages should be based on whatever you state your families cost of living is. :think:

 

[rexlunae]

Yes, i know, i once worked 2 jobs making minimum wage untill i was able to find a better job and then i also went to school, shopped with coupons, and at the thrift store- lots of tomato soup, macaroni and cheese and ramen noodles and a real feast on occasion, hamburger helper when the meat was on sale.

And now you think everyone else should go through that at some point in their lives?

Or we can work hard and move up, work 2 jobs, get roomates and get a better education and change desired fields of work and get an education in them - move to an area where there are more jobs, etc.

But what is the benefit in that approach versus insisting on a higher wage?

Instead of insisting i deserve the same wages flipping a burger as someone who climbs telephone poles and puts their life at risk for example.

I never said that they should be the same. In fact, I think you will find it hard to hire people to risk their lives for minimum wage, whatever that wage may be.

Hello, its called a minimum wage, thats whats happening now.

So, you are in favor of the minimum wage now?

Those jobs are not designed to support a family, sorry.

As stated before, if that is true, then they are exploitative, and should not be permitted.

Think of all the jobs we wont have, if you nuts keep acting like you dont get that some jobs are not designed to be career moves and entry level jobs vanish because of the idiot thoughts that if you dont pay what someone demands, you shouldnt have a business at all.

You aren't listening. I don't care if you think some jobs are for careers or and some aren't, or whatever rationalization you use to justify paying starvation wages. The fact that businesses are allowed to pay wages that cannot sustain a reasonable quality of life, and that permit full-time workers to qualify for welfare benefits, AT ALL is a form of exploitation, and it represents an unfair practice in the job market. It should not be allowed. The people it benefits do not need the help.

 

[Angel4Truth]

And now you think everyone else should go through that at some point in their lives?

Yes, if that is what they need to do to pay their way. Why does hard work and upwardly mobile mentality bother you all to death? Why does earning something just kill some of you?

But what is the benefit in that approach versus insisting on a higher wage?

Why do you think a mother of 3 deserves way more money at a fast food place because she has 3 kids, than the pimply faced part time teenage who does the same job (the job is designed for the teen) when its not a career job to begin with?

How many fast food places do you think there will be, if they had to pay wages commensurate to a fine dining establishment?

As stated before, if that is true, then they are exploitative, and should not be permitted.

Right, it of course would be better to have NO job options instead of a low paying one to get you by till you get a better one. Great idea :think:

You aren't listening. I don't care if you think some jobs are for careers or and some aren't, or whatever rationalization you use to justify paying starvation wages. The fact that businesses are allowed to pay wages that cannot sustain a reasonable quality of life, and that permit full-time workers to qualify for welfare benefits, AT ALL is a form of exploitation, and it represents an unfair practice in the job market. It should not be allowed. The people it benefits do not need the help.

And this shows you have no sense and entitlement mentality and why extreme liberal states are bleeding jobs.

Put your money where your mouth is, start a business and show us your plan working in action, so others can follow your business model.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

You can rest assured that none of the people arguing for a higher minimum wage have ever owned a small business.

They literally have no clue.

 

[Angel4Truth]

You can rest assured that none of the people arguing for a higher minimum wage have ever owned a small business.

They literally have no clue.

Seems they would all have one if their business plan actually resulted in any profit at all.

But sadly their pipe dreams never work in reality.

 

[Alate_One]

Weird logic. Its the mothers responsibility to support her children, job criteria doesn't include paying different wages dependent on how many kids you have.

So another pro-life until after they're born eh?

Its a persons responsibility to see that they do what they need to do to do that.

Is it the child's fault their mother had more children than she could support?

If that means she gets assistance till she can finish school on a grant and get a better job, she can certainly do that in this country.

And she gets to be saddled with debt, usually, for the pleasure of doing it. And we should be realistic, not everyone is cut out for college.

And before you say she cant go to school because of her child, well she could go to that fast food job that you think should pay a ridiculous wage for that kind of work, so she has someone watching them, no?

Are you saying the fast food place should watch her children?

And honestly? $15 an hour isn't ridiculous. The point of a minimum wage is to put a bottom on the labor market. The bottom should be a living wage, not a wage that forces people onto government assistance. Then the government is basically subsidizing the business' profit margin.

 

[rexlunae]

Yes, if that is what they need to do to pay their way. Why does hard work and upwardly mobile mentality bother you all to death? Why does earning something just kill some of you?

Hard work doesn't bother me, nor does working your way up. I just don't think the baseline starting position should be below reasonable survival level.

Why do you think a mother of 3 deserves way more money at a fast food place because she has 3 kids, than the pimply faced part time teenage who does the same job (the job is designed for the teen) when its not a career job to begin with?

I think that it is reasonable to assume that there will likely be a couple of kids in the picture when setting the minimum wage. Perhaps around two. If there are more kids, perhaps then welfare can fill the gap a bit. I don't think a person should automatically get a raise for having children, but then, I also don't want to leave them in abject poverty in order to raise their children. It isn't good for either parent or child.

How many fast food places do you think there will be, if they had to pay wages commensurate to a fine dining establishment?

I have no idea, and that isn't what I demanded.

Right, it of course would be better to have NO job options instead of a low paying one to get you by till you get a better one. Great idea :think:

That wouldn't happen. The businesses in question are generally plenty profitable, and they can't get by with fewer workers. They wouldn't close, and they wouldn't lose lots of business, but they might be a little bit less profitable.

And this shows you have no sense and entitlement mentality and why extreme liberal states are bleeding jobs.

I live in California, which is generally considered a blue state. In 2012, we raised taxes on the rich, raised the minimum wage, and had the fastest-dropping unemployment rate in the nation. And we balanced the budget.

Put your money where your mouth is, start a business and show us your plan working in action, so others can follow your business model.

I don't need to start a business. I have a good-paying job. I also was born into a fair amount of middle-class privilege that not everyone has access to.