Fast Food workers protest and demand more money.

[musterion]

turns out conservatives are more generous when it comes to charitable giving than libs

I saw a leftist try to deal with that once. He couldn't contest the fact, so he brushed it off by saying leftists give to the CORRECT causes; the natural implication being that conservatives give to the wrong ones.

Someone pointed out the logic of this is that giving money to pay Al Gore's pool cleaning bill (in the name of fighting global warming) is morally > to giving to local soup kitchens that actually feed children you might see on the street. There was no reply when this was pointed out.

As with everything else leftists do, it's all about how what you do makes you LOOK and FEEL while you do it. The actual results, good or bad, are at best a secondary consideration.

 

[resurrected]

well, they are retarded :idunno:

 

[Alate_One]

And, how do you come to that conclusion??

Let's see a "holier than thou" attitude (especially the ones on this site). How many threads do we have attacking homosexuals and other sinners? Take the plank from your own eye before addressing the speck in your brother's eye.

Lack of compassion for sinners, the poor, the less fortunate (pull yourself up by your bootstraps).

Once again, Liberals like yourself try to claim Jesus would have been a Liberal today, and that Conservatives are like Pharisees.

First off, the Pharisees rejected Jesus, the Pharisees denied that Jesus was the Son of God, that Jesus was the Messiah. Today, someone who calls themselves a "Christian" is a follower of Christ Jesus. So, right off the bat, your analogy is way off.

Secondly, I don't know any Christians who don't want to help the poor. I know many Christians who are against the government raising taxes on people that work so the government can "help the poor".

No, it you that's deluded. You seem to think there's some magical distinction between "government" and the people. We can see in the OT God judges nations as well as individuals and that includes their government. There's absolutely no indication in scripture that God cares whether an individual or a collective does what's right.

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

All of that is right wing Republican nonsense you've confused with actual scripture. Here's some examples of common delusions in right wingers that most think are scriptural somehow or at least equivalent to scripture in their minds:

1. That the "free market" is sanctified and must be upheld and regulated as little as possible.

2. That the US constitution was inspired by God (or nearly so).

3. And (incongruously) government is evil and should be made smaller and "drowned in a bathtub". (Libertarian Christians)

4. That poor people are lazy by definition and only individuals or churches should help them.

5. Differences in racial outcomes are explained by genetics, "culture" and laziness. (Lack of compassion, empathy etc.)

6. Foreigners are a hindrance to the country. "Illegals" are to be deported as soon as possible. (Try reading what scripture has to say about foreigners)

7.They're *better* than those evil gay/liberal/aborter/adulterous etc. people. (See the Pharisee's prayer) How many right wing Christians would spend time with these people as Jesus did with the tax collectors and prostitutes of his day?
Also . . . "The culture is declining and will destroy America because America used to be more Christian and was much less sinful."

8.Non-white people aren't "real" Americans. (They won't say this one out-loud but it's pretty clear from their actions. Unless of course they start spouting the same delusions, then they get put on a pedestal - see we're not racist!)

9. Love of the rich. If they aren't rich, they think they can be rich so they don't want more taxes on the rich cause they might end up there. It almost never happens but again, delusion. What does the Bible say about the rich? Generally not good things.

10. Taxes are evil. (Because government is evil somehow). Again scripture doesn't agree with this. Jesus commands us to pay taxes, as does Paul. And they're talking about paying taxes to evil pagan Rome! How can we complain about paying taxes to a government that is elected by the people and at least has good intentions on caring for the poor and needy?

All of these right wing traditions are so ingrained, they think they're part of scripture. Unfortunately, reality is rather different.

8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.” 9 And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’[c] 11 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— 12 then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. 13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”

Vindicate the weak and fatherless; Do justice to the afflicted and destitute. Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.

That means we'd better cut the funding for food stamps because government is evil . . . :doh:

 

[resurrected]

impressive to see a whole field of 'em

good job! :thumb:

 

[Lighthouse]

How so?

"If they won't pay me more I'm not going to do the work," is considered by leftists to be better than "I want to be paid more so I'm going to work my butt off to get a raise and a promotion." It's liberal logic 101.

He said the kingdom of heaven was similar to when people who worked less got paid the same as those who worked more. The landowner rebuked those who worked hard for wanting more.

No, He compared it to giving those who were there for fewer hours the same as those who there for more. There is nothing said about the amount of work they did while there.

And your argument fails on another level as in this story the amount of pay is left up to the boss, and no one else.

And again in that they all agreed to work for what they were paid, before the work even began.

Not to mention this is a clear analog to grace and not really about monetary wages for physical work.

“For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard. 3 “About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ 5 So they went. “He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’ 7 “‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered. “He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’ 8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’ 9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’ 13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’ 16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”

I'm going to leave this here so others can see you failure.

How about the years of jubilee when debts were canceled and land returned to the original owners?

Not read your Bible all the way through, eh?

What of it?

weird - he still thinks i'm sozo


a clear example of the destruction to man's brain cells from the evils of alcohol

Not to mention he doesn't have any room to talk about people's looks.

For one, the minimum wage of fast food places is completely unjustifiable.

Skill has nothing to do with it, it's the sheer work in itself. You all can sit there and try to trivialize that, but it's all nonsense.

Perhaps you worked at one where you weren't drenched in sweat, slaving over hot oil and a million customers a second for nine straight hours. Going home with sore ankles and grease burns, just so you can go back at the crack of dawn and do it over.

That's not a job that should be paying 7.25 an hour. That rate is for people making snow cones or being doormen.

What's idiotic is the fact that most people with good jobs in fact didn't work hard to get there. They were simply born with easy opportunity.
So their opinions and personal experiences are worthless.

You can't say if you did it, anyone can.
No. Not everyone walks in your shoes, you can't make that sort of judgement on anybody, and that's precisely the attitude that frustrates me with conservatives.

The simple fact of the matter is that the right wing is just plain greedy, and will come up with anything to protect that greed. So long as they are getting their pay increases, they don't care about others.

I have worked on griddles, fry vats and ovens. I have run register with lines of customers.* I have worked the food prep line. I have done dishes. I've been a busboy. I have been burned, and cut in the process of doing these jobs. And with the dishes I always ended up soaking wet. And the last job where I did many of these I sweat as a result of the heat in the kitchen.

The person being greedy here is you.

 

[quip]

"If they won't pay me more I'm not going to do the work," is considered by leftists to be better than "I want to be paid more so I'm going to work my butt off to get a raise and a promotion." It's liberal logic 101.

They're called dead-end jobs....for a reason.

 

[The Barbarian]

"If they won't pay me more I'm not going to do the work",

"

Is economics 101. If you don't want to do the work, don't do it. If they can, they'll find someone who will work for that wage. On the other hand, if all the workers say "this isn't enough for the job", then the employer has to make some hard choices. Pay up or go out of business.

If the public thinks he's being unreasonable and stops going to his restaurant, that's also part of economics. If you anger your customers, you lose.

Notice that none of this has anything to do with ethics or morality. It's just economics.

The real fear by many in the fast food industry, is that we seem close to that tipping point.

 

[Lighthouse]

They're called dead-end jobs....for a reason.

Is that the best you've got?

The first time I worked at McDonald's was the summer between my junior and senior year of high school. One of my managers was in my class, and he was actually younger than me. As a manager he made more than minimum wage. Do you think he was hired as a manager or do you think he got a job there as a minimum wage employee and worked his way up?

 

[musterion]

Is that the best you've got?

The first time I worked at McDonald's was the summer between my junior and senior year of high school. One of my managers was in my class, and he was actually younger than me. As a manager he made more than minimum wage. Do you think he was hired as a manager or do you think he got a job there as a minimum wage employee and worked his way up?

His 1% rich daddy probably got him the manager gig, at your expense. You should have resented him, slashed his tires, blew hockers onto people's Fillet o' Fish because Justice and Fairness and tried to unionize the joint.

/

 

[whitestone]

well I had myself cloned a few years back and had him go to work,,I really wish you all would demand he get 15.00 instead of 7.25,,,if not I'll have to do the clone thing again and send him to work at a different restaurant,,

 

[Alate_One]

No, He compared it to giving those who were there for fewer hours the same as those who there for more. There is nothing said about the amount of work they did while there.

More hours generally equals more work. That's why the workers were upset. They felt the pay was unequal because people who WORKED LESS got the same as them. Which you (and most of the others in this thread) are making the exact same argument. That's it's unfair to pay people who work less or work jobs that don't require as much education as much as people who are more skilled or work more.

Who says "fairness" is always the best answer?

I'd say pay scales are already unfair. My current job is far easier than when I worked at McDonalds, it requires a *lot* more education but it would be hard to pay me enough to work at McDonalds. Why? Because the job was hard, icky and people treated you like you were less than human.

How was it hard? In lunch/breakfast rush at my corporate McDonald's you'd be taking orders and filling them nonstop for several hours straight as fast as you could go. If it was slow it wasn't bad, but I'd take just about any other job I've ever had over that one.

If pay was based purely on how hard you worked at a job, pay scales would be completely different.

And your argument fails on another level as in this story the amount of pay is left up to the boss, and no one else.

In this case sure. Though the analogy is to God. And God is merciful and chooses to pay (or to give eternal life in the analogy) to people who "worked" less than others.

In modern society people as a whole can choose to regulate what the baseline pay is, we can choose to be merciful as a country. That's what is at issue here.

And again in that they all agreed to work for what they were paid, before the work even began.

Well the landowner agreed to pay the later workers "what was fair".

Not to mention this is a clear analog to grace and not really about monetary wages for physical work.

No, but you're making the exact same argument about wages as the men in the story did. What is the difference between showing mercy in money on earth and God showing mercy to us?

I'm happy to pay more for a burger so that people can have a living wage. Are you?

 

[bybee]

His 1% rich daddy probably got him the manager gig, at your expense. You should have resented him, slashed his tires, blew hockers onto people's Fillet o' Fish because Justice and Fairness and tried to unionize the joint.

/

It is just and fair to pollute an innocent customer's food?
It is just and fair to destroy someone else's property?

 

[musterion]

I thought we'd developed a decent relationship, Byb, but lately you just haven't been getting my points. I don't know what to say, except that the slash at the end should explain my point.

 

[whitestone]

It is just and fair to pollute an innocent customer's food?
It is just and fair to destroy someone else's property?

hey I ran D.Q.'s about 7 years in the late 80's and lost track of the cooks/clerk's I let go for serving "spit/booger burgers",,If one thinks they can eat in one of these places and be immune of this "they are naive",,,,

 

[musterion]

In modern society people as a whole can choose to regulate what the baseline pay is,

Translation: forcing business owners to pay substandard workers more than they're worth when compared with efficient workers, which can also discourage hard workers from trying as hard.

we can choose to be merciful as a country.

Regulated mercy? Enforced mercy?

 

[whitestone]

granite's just trolling - he's been down this path dozens of times


if you stop responding to him he'll get bored, finish whatever he's drinking and pass out


or, if you're really lucky, he'll put you on ignore :chuckle:

I like it,,"people putting others on ignore",,,(not meaning Granite,,,,),,,but after a year of reading the threads I realized that the nuts who seem to have not read the entire thread,,,"HAVE EVERY OTHER POSTER ON IGNORE,AND SO ACTUALLY HAVEN'T READ BUT HALF THE DISCUSSION"<----"jokes on them"

 

[resurrected]

yeah - i don't get the point of "participating" on a forum where you're ignorant of what half the people are saying


might as well just go down in your basement and shout at the world :idunno:

 

[whitestone]

yeah - i don't get the point of "participating" on a forum where you're ignorant of what half the people are saying


might as well just go down in your basement and shout at the world :idunno:

yep(r.o.f.l.),,,,"hey guys,I was playing with the buttons to see how the ignore feature works,,,have any of you seen Rez,,,did he quit all of his post are gone?",,,,,lol

 

[musterion]

yeah - i don't get the point of "participating" on a forum where you're ignorant of what half the people are saying

Depends on the half.

 

[whitestone]

oh I see "if I sign on there's two people on tol,,,if I sign off and view it there's hundreds,,,"