beloved57
Well-known member
Wow, what a evasion and Rabbit trail comments!
Faith to believe on Christ !
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
Wow, what a evasion and Rabbit trail comments!
beloved57
Well-known member
Its an Inheritance !
Faith is an Inheritance to the Children of God, Christ's Seed. Its one of the blessings due them due to their Union with Christ, an Union beginning before the foundation Eph 1:4 ; 1 Cor 1:30
It is because of God that you are in union with the Messiah Jesus, who for us has become wisdom from God, as well as our righteousness, sanctification, and redemption. ISV
And so they obtain Faith in time to manifest their Union and their right to Inheritance with Him. Its through Him as Our God and Saviour 2 Pet 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Savior Jesus Christ:
See Christ died for the Seed of Abraham Heb 2:16 and that Spiritual Seed of Abraham must receive Faith to be identified as his Spiritual Seed !
Faith is an Abrahamic Covenant Inheritance, for God in that Covenant promised Abraham a believing seed ! So his seed and Christ seed obtain it by Inheritance Eph 1:11
11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will
They were predestinated to obtain an Inheritance, which Faith is a part of that !
Faith is an Inheritance to the Children of God, Christ's Seed. Its one of the blessings due them due to their Union with Christ, an Union beginning before the foundation Eph 1:4 ; 1 Cor 1:30
It is because of God that you are in union with the Messiah Jesus, who for us has become wisdom from God, as well as our righteousness, sanctification, and redemption. ISV
And so they obtain Faith in time to manifest their Union and their right to Inheritance with Him. Its through Him as Our God and Saviour 2 Pet 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Savior Jesus Christ:
See Christ died for the Seed of Abraham Heb 2:16 and that Spiritual Seed of Abraham must receive Faith to be identified as his Spiritual Seed !
Faith is an Abrahamic Covenant Inheritance, for God in that Covenant promised Abraham a believing seed ! So his seed and Christ seed obtain it by Inheritance Eph 1:11
11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will
They were predestinated to obtain an Inheritance, which Faith is a part of that !
Nanja
Well-known member
Amen! The Seed of Abraham, Christ's Seed, as they are born in time, shall receive the fruit of Faith in New Birth as evidence of being predestinated to an Inheritance by their Eternal Union with Christ, being joint heirs with Him as Sons / Children of God.
Gal. 3:7-9, 13-14
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Rom. 4:13,16
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all [all the Seed of Christ]
Gal. 4:4-7
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Rom. 8:14-17
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
So just as Isaac was Born of the Spirit, a Child of Faith in Christ, so are all the Chosen Seed in Christ Eph. 1:4-11.
Gal 4:28-29
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now
~~~
Nanja
Well-known member
So True, because Christ is Abraham's Seed, He died as the Seed of Abraham for the Seed of Abraham Heb. 2:16-17 which is His Body Chosen in Him Eph. 1:4: Ps. 105:6, the Church Eph. 5:25, His Sheep John 10:11,15:
The whole World of Israel comprised of jews and gentiles, that was Promised Salvation Is. 45:17.
~~~
beloved57
Well-known member
Amen, So Abrahams Seed Christ produces Abrahams Seed of Faith. Abraham by nature can't produce Children of Faith, but His Seed Christ can and does.
Nanja
Well-known member
Right! It's because Christ as Abraham's Seed was made a quickening, or Life-giving Spirit 1 Cor. 15:45 to all of the Elect, the Seed of Abraham, which He was made a Surety for Heb. 7:22. The fruit of that quickening or New Birth is Faith to Believe on Christ Gal. 5:22.
~~~
beloved57
Well-known member
Absolutely right ! Praise God for your fellowship in the Truth. Jonn wrote:
3 Jn 1:3
For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth.
Nanja
Well-known member
Always Praising God for yours too Brother!
Phil. 1:4-6
Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now;
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
~~~
beloved57
Well-known member
Several reasons why some people don't believe on Christ or His Gospel !
One reason why people don't believe on Christ or His Gospel is simply because they are not of His Sheep Jn 10:26
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Hence, any reasonable soul should see that this statement by Christ indicates that if a person would have been one of His Sheep, that He died for Jn 10:11,15, they shall believe in Him !
A second reason why people don't believe in Christ is because they weren't ordained to eternal life Acts 13:48
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
The word ordained does mean also predestined to eternal life !
And when the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified (praised and gave thanks for) the Word of God; and as many as were destined (appointed and ordained) to eternal life believed (adhered to, trusted in, and relied on Jesus as the Christ and their Savior). AMPC
Understand something, believing in Christ is the consequence of having been ordained, appointed to eternal life !
This speaks to election. Notice the phrase " as many as" ordained to eternal life. This again denotes election or a limited amount, for if when this phrase is used "as many as" it means all without exception, then the words would have no meaning ! Like again here Jn 17:2
As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Once again, if "as many as" means all without exception, the words are meaningless, but if restricted, it speaks once again to limited election !
One reason why people don't believe on Christ or His Gospel is simply because they are not of His Sheep Jn 10:26
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Hence, any reasonable soul should see that this statement by Christ indicates that if a person would have been one of His Sheep, that He died for Jn 10:11,15, they shall believe in Him !
A second reason why people don't believe in Christ is because they weren't ordained to eternal life Acts 13:48
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
The word ordained does mean also predestined to eternal life !
And when the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified (praised and gave thanks for) the Word of God; and as many as were destined (appointed and ordained) to eternal life believed (adhered to, trusted in, and relied on Jesus as the Christ and their Savior). AMPC
Understand something, believing in Christ is the consequence of having been ordained, appointed to eternal life !
This speaks to election. Notice the phrase " as many as" ordained to eternal life. This again denotes election or a limited amount, for if when this phrase is used "as many as" it means all without exception, then the words would have no meaning ! Like again here Jn 17:2
As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Once again, if "as many as" means all without exception, the words are meaningless, but if restricted, it speaks once again to limited election !
Eagles Wings
New member
I find myself praying often for unbelievers in my family or my acquaintance, that if the Lord wills, they would be regenerated by the Holy Spirit and given the fullness of faith in Christ Jesus. Ever mindful that my witness of Christ, could be the way God brings an un-regenerated elect into faith.
beloved57
Well-known member
A third reason why some people dont believe in Christ is because they're already condemned or condemned already Jn 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
See believing on Christ is not for them who are condemned for their sins, which means Christ was never condemned in their place and stead. Believing on Christ is designed for them He came under Gods Judgment and condemnation and curse for their sins, such ones cant be condemned themselves, and the reason why is because Christ already has, so they are given Faith in Christ, to believe what He has done for them. Paul says it like this Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
If Christ has died for us, and removed our sins, guilt and condemnation before God, we have a right to believe on His name because we arent condemned, but if He did not die for our sins, we are condemned by them, and have no right to believe on His Name ! Condemned people cannot, will not and have no right to believe on Christ's Name !
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
See believing on Christ is not for them who are condemned for their sins, which means Christ was never condemned in their place and stead. Believing on Christ is designed for them He came under Gods Judgment and condemnation and curse for their sins, such ones cant be condemned themselves, and the reason why is because Christ already has, so they are given Faith in Christ, to believe what He has done for them. Paul says it like this Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
If Christ has died for us, and removed our sins, guilt and condemnation before God, we have a right to believe on His name because we arent condemned, but if He did not die for our sins, we are condemned by them, and have no right to believe on His Name ! Condemned people cannot, will not and have no right to believe on Christ's Name !
beloved57
Well-known member
A fourth reason is a unregenerate, unprepared heart !
Those who embrace Christ through the Gospel, the preached word, had been given an prepared new heart. This is seen in Christ parable of the different grounds, observe Matt 13:18-23
[FONT="]Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.[/FONT]
[FONT="]20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;[/FONT]
[FONT="]21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.[/FONT]
[FONT="]22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.[/FONT]
[FONT="]23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
See man by nature doesnt understand God or the things of God, so Paul wrote Rom 3:11
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Now the word for understandeth is the very same greek word in both Rom 3:11 and Matt 23:13 and it denotes understandeth with their heart as here Matt 13:15
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Well man cannot by nature understandeth with his heart and doesnt Rom 3:11, therefore without being first given a good heart by newbirth, man cannot believe and understand the Gospel, and at best can only superfically receive it without root as per the stony heart hearer Matt 13:20-21
But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
But notice, Jesus didnt say he received it and understood it as He did with the one receiving the word with a good heart in Vs 23 !
Men are prepared to receive the word, as here stated Lk 1:17
And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
Their hearts woud be prepared for the Lord and His word ![/FONT]
Those who embrace Christ through the Gospel, the preached word, had been given an prepared new heart. This is seen in Christ parable of the different grounds, observe Matt 13:18-23
[FONT="]Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.[/FONT]
[FONT="]20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;[/FONT]
[FONT="]21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.[/FONT]
[FONT="]22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.[/FONT]
[FONT="]23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
See man by nature doesnt understand God or the things of God, so Paul wrote Rom 3:11
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Now the word for understandeth is the very same greek word in both Rom 3:11 and Matt 23:13 and it denotes understandeth with their heart as here Matt 13:15
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Well man cannot by nature understandeth with his heart and doesnt Rom 3:11, therefore without being first given a good heart by newbirth, man cannot believe and understand the Gospel, and at best can only superfically receive it without root as per the stony heart hearer Matt 13:20-21
But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
But notice, Jesus didnt say he received it and understood it as He did with the one receiving the word with a good heart in Vs 23 !
Men are prepared to receive the word, as here stated Lk 1:17
And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
Their hearts woud be prepared for the Lord and His word ![/FONT]
Nanja
Well-known member
Excellent points made Brother!
4 reasons why some people don't believe on Christ and His Gospel:
1) They are not of His Sheep
2) They weren't ordained to eternal life
3) They're already condemned
4) They have an unregenerate, unprepared heart
An unprepared heart is reprobate heart; an heart of one who has not been made ready / ordained to eternal life because they were not elect in Christ; not His Sheep He gave His Life for; but were those God had prepared for destruction Rom. 9:22; Mat. 25:41 as punishment for their sins. That's why they shall not believe in Christ and His Gospel because they were already condemned John 3:18, 36.
beloved57
Well-known member
A fifth reason why men dont believe the Gospel or in Christ is because they are lost. The Gospel is being hid to them that are Lost, resulting in their believing not, since the god of this world has blinded their minds 2 Cor 4:3-4
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Also its to be noted that the word hid in verse 3 is both times in the perfect tense, indicating that the Gospel is being permanently hid from the lost ! These will never believe the True Gospel, because they are permanently lost !
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Also its to be noted that the word hid in verse 3 is both times in the perfect tense, indicating that the Gospel is being permanently hid from the lost ! These will never believe the True Gospel, because they are permanently lost !
beloved57
Well-known member
Faith to believe in Christ/God is one of the results /purposes of the resurrection of Christ !
Proud religious men constantly deem salvation Faith in Christ a result of mans freewill, the natural man at that ! This is gross error and disregard for the Power of God, and the Gift of God which produces Faith in the Elect of God, hence why its called the Faith of Gods Elect Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
Several scriptures instruct us the Faith is the result of the power of God, for instance one is in Eph 1:19-20
[FONT="]And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Now Peter writes of this same Truth here 1 Pet 1:20-21
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
When Christ was raised from the dead, God gave Him Glory ! Why ? SO THAT your Faith and Hope might be in God !
Now understand what Peter is saying , and saying it to. Hes saying , when Christ was raised from the dead, God the Father gave Him Glory so that , the word that in the greek is the conjunction hóste which means:
so that, therefore, so then, so as to.
a conjunction, derived from 5613 /hōs, "as" and 5037 /té, "both-and") – wherefore (with the result that both . . . ), connecting cause to necessary effect which emphasizes the result (the combined, end-accomplishment). The result involved then is the combination of both elements in the correlation, underscoring the inevitable effect of the paired elements.
So God raised Him Christ from the dead, gave Him Glory, so that the result and effect would be their Faith and Hope in God !
And Hes saying it to the Elect 1 Pet 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.[/FONT]
Proud religious men constantly deem salvation Faith in Christ a result of mans freewill, the natural man at that ! This is gross error and disregard for the Power of God, and the Gift of God which produces Faith in the Elect of God, hence why its called the Faith of Gods Elect Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
Several scriptures instruct us the Faith is the result of the power of God, for instance one is in Eph 1:19-20
[FONT="]And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Now Peter writes of this same Truth here 1 Pet 1:20-21
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
When Christ was raised from the dead, God gave Him Glory ! Why ? SO THAT your Faith and Hope might be in God !
Now understand what Peter is saying , and saying it to. Hes saying , when Christ was raised from the dead, God the Father gave Him Glory so that , the word that in the greek is the conjunction hóste which means:
so that, therefore, so then, so as to.
a conjunction, derived from 5613 /hōs, "as" and 5037 /té, "both-and") – wherefore (with the result that both . . . ), connecting cause to necessary effect which emphasizes the result (the combined, end-accomplishment). The result involved then is the combination of both elements in the correlation, underscoring the inevitable effect of the paired elements.
So God raised Him Christ from the dead, gave Him Glory, so that the result and effect would be their Faith and Hope in God !
And Hes saying it to the Elect 1 Pet 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.[/FONT]
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Of course and here we see exactly how "faith" is the result of the power of God, specifically the gospel:
"For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit, and in much assurance" (1 Thess.1:5).
God's Truth
New member
Faith is from God, from reading His powerful message, the Bible, the New Testament. It has the powerful message that saves. We do not get faith supernaturally, as many teach, but we get faith in a very human way, from reading the supernatural message!
2 Peter 1:3 His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.
WE MUST HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD TO HAVE FAITH.
Where does our faith come from? Our faith comes from HEARING the word, see Romans 10:17. From hearing the word and being TAUGHT, Colossians 1:5, 7. From continuing in what we have been CONVINCED of, see 2 Timothy 3:14, and being PERSUADED, 2 Corinthians 5:11.
2 Peter 1:3 His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.
WE MUST HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD TO HAVE FAITH.
Where does our faith come from? Our faith comes from HEARING the word, see Romans 10:17. From hearing the word and being TAUGHT, Colossians 1:5, 7. From continuing in what we have been CONVINCED of, see 2 Timothy 3:14, and being PERSUADED, 2 Corinthians 5:11.
Total crap.
Abraham did not read the OT and NT to be declared righteous by GOD.
And of course we have the case of Jacob/Israel being elected of GOD before he was even born and did anything right or wrong.
It was pure election of grace and not merited at all.
God's Truth
New member
I gave scriptures saying where faith comes from and you say total crap.
How is it that you say that to the scriptures I gave?
God spoke to Abraham one on one.
Why would Abraham need to read about it if he was listening to the One from whom the scriptures come?
God KNOWS everything and knew Esau would give up the inheritance for a bowl of soup and He knew Jacob would fight for the inheritance.
Nonsense; for God chose Abraham because he would do EVERYTHING that God said.
Genesis 26:4-5 I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws."
God chose Jacob because he struggled with God and overcame.
Genesis 32:28 Then the man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome."