ECT Faith + Obedience = Salvation?

[turbosixx]

In fact, read a little farther and you'll find this....

Gal. 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?​

"Obey the truth" is believing the Gospel. They fell short...though they started off well, but were not saved, because their trust was in the Law instead of in God's grace through faith.

We actually see that a lot....this very thread speaks to the issue.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean here. If we look at the overall book, Paul is writing to Christians in the churches of Galatia that have been confused by the adding of circumcision. They believed the gospel but they were slipping back to the old law. They were not continuing to follow(obey) the true gospel but a distorted gospel.
Gal. 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

They believed the gospel and received the HS.
3:2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

Paul tells them to stay in Christ but if they go back to the old law they will fall from grace.
5:1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

 

[Cross Reference]

Well......I know my sins have all been forgiven...past, present, and future. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world....past, present, and future. The only thing separating man from God now is unbelief.

Sorry, you can't have it both ways. Future sins forgiven as you have stated they are in your belief is the justifying of them before they ever happen. It doesn't work that way unless one believes in grace being "cheap" as to it being of no concern because Jesus simply absorbs 'my' condemnation. He doesn't do that, ever. Does overcoming the flesh ring a bell in this as something man is enabled to do because of his new birth from above?

 

[Nang]

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Yes, indeed. Whosoever God has chosen and prepared for glory WILL believe in Him! John 3:16; Romans 9:23

None of them will be lost, . . but all unbelieving reprobates are condemned already. John 3:18-20; Romans 9:22

 

[turbosixx]

People see the word "commandments" and they immediately come under bondage...which is exactly what Paul preaches against.

Paul preaches against bondage of the law, not against bondage to Christ.
Roman 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Paul says he is giving us the Lords commandments.
1 Cor. 14:37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment.

If we choose to not follow the instructions that Paul gives us, who are we serving?

 

[Nang]

Paul preaches against bondage of the law, not against bondage to Christ.
Roman 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Paul says he is giving us the Lords commandments.
1 Cor. 14:37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment.

If we choose to not follow the instructions that Paul gives us, who are we serving?

Amen . .

"And this is His commandment; that we should BELIEVE on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. Now he who keeps His commandments and abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us." I John 3:23-24; Matthew 22:37-40

Christians WILL obey Christ's commandments, because it is the WILL of their Master/Creator/Savior/King.

 

[DAN P]

The Bible says that Satan ensnares people to do his work. What is Satan's work? Satan's work is to give doctrines from demons, to accuse people and say all kinds of slanderous things to them.

All saved are called brethren.

Hi and in 1 Tim 3:11 ans in 2 Tim 3:3 and in Titus 2:3 there are always FALSE ACCUSERS !!

Bit Rev 12:10 is a special ACCUSER , called Satan !!

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

You do NOT know whether your co-worker is saved and neither do I.

But regardless, obedience is NOT the measure of salvation.

Many who appear "obedient" are not saved.

Your right, I am not the judge but this I do know. Adulterers will not be saved.
Rev. 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

If someone is practicing disobedience on a daily basis, is it possible for them to be saved?

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and I had to check the Greek word for 1 Thess 4:2 and it is NOT the Greek for commandment !!

The ACTUAL Greek word is PARAGGELIA and it means COMMAND !!

The Greek word means COMMAND , MANDATE or CHARGE !!

Check SRONG'S G3852 and you will see !!

dan p

Since it's a command and not a commandment, we can choose to not do it?

How about here.
1 Cor. 14:37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment.

 

[Nang]

People see the word "commandments" and they immediately come under bondage...which is exactly what Paul preaches against.

This is only accurate, if persons attempt to earn merit or their salvation according to legal means.

But the same Law that condemns those who do, has a third purpose . . and that is to manifest the witness of who love and believes in the righteousness of Jesus Christ, and reveres the holy Law of God as their moral guide in life.

Faith and rest in the righteousness of Jesus Christ, does not nullify the Ten Commandments. What commandment of the Decalogue would any Christian ignore, deny, or oppose observing?

"Be ye holy, for I am holy."

Those prepared for glory say, "Amen!"

 

[God's Truth]

You only know the historical Messiah.

What? Use scripture.

 

[DAN P]

Since it's a command and not a commandment, we can choose to not do it?

How about here.
1 Cor. 14:37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment.

Hi and as I said that many Greek words are a Transliteration , and the COMMANDMENT / ENTOLE that is used is a different Greek word !!

If you can focus on what 1 Cor 14:37 is says , you can then understand what ORDERS Paul was given !!

ENTOLE / COMMANDMENT can be translated by the following , PRECEPT , INJUNCTION , CHARGE or COMMANDMENTS and this is not the 613 Laws that governed Israel !!



dan p

 

[glorydaz]

This is only accurate, if persons attempt to earn merit or their salvation according to legal means.

But the same Law that condemns those who do, has a third purpose . . and that is to manifest the witness of who love and believes in the righteousness of Jesus Christ, and reveres the holy Law of God as their moral guide in life.

Faith and rest in the righteousness of Jesus Christ, does not nullify the Ten Commandments. What commandment of the Decalogue would any Christian ignore, deny, or oppose observing?

"Be ye holy, for I am holy."

Those prepared for glory say, "Amen!"

Which commandment would condemn those who have been saved by Grace through faith?

 

[God's Truth]

Hi and in 1 Tim 3:11 ans in 2 Tim 3:3 and in Titus 2:3 there are always FALSE ACCUSERS !!

Bit Rev 12:10 is a special ACCUSER , called Satan !!

dan p

There are a lot of people ensnared by Satan to do his work.

 

[glorydaz]

Yes, indeed. Whosoever God has chosen and prepared for glory WILL believe in Him! John 3:16; Romans 9:23

None of them will be lost, . . but all unbelieving reprobates are condemned already. John 3:18-20; Romans 9:22

See how you have to add words to one verse, and then take a verse that is speaking of nations to come up with a doctrine? That's not the way to find truth.

 

[glorydaz]

Paul preaches against bondage of the law, not against bondage to Christ.
Roman 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Paul says he is giving us the Lords commandments.
1 Cor. 14:37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment.

If we choose to not follow the instructions that Paul gives us, who are we serving?

I see you aren't showing me the Lord's commandments....are you confusing them with the instructions Paul gives to the churches? I think you are.

I also think you're overlooking the obedience of faith....obeying the Gospel is believing unto righteousness and salvation. You can add all kinds of rules and regulations to that, but you're in error to claim they are necessary for salvation or eternal life.

 

[glorydaz]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean here. If we look at the overall book, Paul is writing to Christians in the churches of Galatia that have been confused by the adding of circumcision. They believed the gospel but they were slipping back to the old law. They were not continuing to follow(obey) the true gospel but a distorted gospel.
Gal. 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

They believed the gospel and received the HS.
3:2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

Paul tells them to stay in Christ but if they go back to the old law they will fall from grace.
5:1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

Paul knew, just as everyone should know that a person's presence in an assembly does not insure all are saved. I'm confident that someone who is truly saved will not fall for being subject again to the bondage of the law.

Being "called by grace" isn't the same as believing unto salvation which requires faith. Grace can only be accessed by faith. Paul is reminding any who doubt that to "examine themselves whether they be in the faith" as he does when there is any doubt. I could say the same to you, and you would claim it was your obedience that caused you to receive the Spirit. Then I would know that you had no Spirit, but were merely fooling yourself.

 

[turbosixx]

I see you aren't showing me the Lord's commandments....are you confusing them with the instructions Paul gives to the churches? I think you are.

No confusion. Paul said what he writes is the Lord's commandments.

What did Jesus mean by this statement?
Matt. 28:18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

I also think you're overlooking the obedience of faith....obeying the Gospel is believing unto righteousness and salvation. You can add all kinds of rules and regulations to that, but you're in error to claim they are necessary for salvation or eternal life.

I only claim to know what I read.
1 Jn. 3:7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning.

When I look at examples of judgment in scripture, it's always based on what someone did or didn't do.
Rom. 2:5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

 

[Nang]

Which commandment would condemn those who have been saved by Grace through faith?

God's grace never gives license to sin.

Which of the Ten Commandments would you feel free to disobey, without remorse or confession and genuine repentance, in heart, mind, or will?

Would you so test God by practicing what is morally declared by God, as sin?

 

[DAN P]

Since it's a command and not a commandment, we can choose to not do it?

How about here.
1 Cor. 14:37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment.

Hi and in Rom 13:8-10 is for us today !!

But notice what Rom 13 leaves OUT , to love the Lord with all your heart , and why is that ??

I have to go home , sorry !!

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

Paul knew, just as everyone should know that a person's presence in an assembly does not insure all are saved. I'm confident that someone who is truly saved will not fall for being subject again to the bondage of the law.

The language proves they were saved. You can't fall from a position you haven't attained.

Being "called by grace" isn't the same as believing unto salvation which requires faith. Grace can only be accessed by faith. Paul is reminding any who doubt that to "examine themselves whether they be in the faith" as he does when there is any doubt. I could say the same to you, and you would claim it was your obedience that caused you to receive the Spirit. Then I would know that you had no Spirit, but were merely fooling yourself.

Yes, by obedience to the gospel.
2 Thes. 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: