Faith, Not Works, Justifies the Ungodly, Romans 4:5.

[Interplanner]

The odd thing to me about James is not the issue of faith; I do think that a believer without action is very much a corpse. The problem is the near-cliche disdain for money. It's almost like he is challenged by it and needs to appreciate that a lot can be done by proper handling. Poor people don't hire employees, James!

 

[Interplanner]

Back to salvation, I think I have something that is a good illustration of a typical modern problem, and hope to get this illustration to JerryS, too.

I'm at a regional state fair and a Faith Baptist church has a booth near my barn and garage co booth. Their attention getter is a display panel with three doors titled:

THERE ARE THREE THINGS GOD CANNOT DO

There is an short explanation line inside each of the three doors. Not real creative, but there it is.

#3 says GOD CANNOT LET YOU INTO HEAVEN IF YOU ARE NOT BORN AGAIN.

What I want to focus on here is the weight on the human decision or the human changed life. Like RobertP, I also think "the gospel of the changed life has replaced the Gospel which changes lives." Well, here is the gospel of the changed life. The material dwells on the person's condition, but it does it two ways, neither of which are quite up to muster with Romans.

The 2nd of the two ways is 'getting a person to heaven.' Of course, we all have a fear about that, but we don't always deal with the real issue about the fear about that. The fear is not getting to heaven, exactly. It is something about which we may have confidence far before that. It is about justification from our sins.

Not everyone wakes up each day worried about getting to heaven. Here I am nearly 60 and only 1 or two untimely deaths among all the friends I have had all through life. But everyone should be concerned about justification from their sins, not only because it has after-life value, but because a person does not want their past to steal happiness from them, and needs a way that generates a love for Christ every moment in a positive way, not just the absence of fear. That way is the Gospel of justification, which RobertP is very good at expressing.

Romans is all about justification. It is all about the kind of benefit it is in this life, with a few references to the next as well. But most of all it is beyond just benefits to us. It is about the fact that God must be satisfied or propitiated. That is really what must sink in to our modern time. He is not malleable to us and our needs. We must see that we need to be acceptable to him. Our acceptance of him is much less of a question.

 

[Interplanner]

One of those shallow, "Baptisty" approaches

One of those shallow, "Baptisty" approaches

[duplicate]

 

[1Way1Truth1Life]

I have learned to try everything in the light of the historical Gospel of Jesus Christ. The book of James leaves something to be desired, mainly Jesus Christ.

More of, Did God really say, from you. You stumble over the Stone of Stumbling. The letter of James is Scripture, agrees with Paul as well as the OT Scripture as well as the early church Bishops and apologists Ante-Nicene. The letter of James is written by the Holy Spirit and very much contains the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[beloved57]

I have learned to try everything in the light of the historical Gospel of Jesus Christ. The book of James leaves something to be desired, mainly Jesus Christ.

You dont believe the Gospel of Christ ! Have you repented and now believe the Truths of TULIP ?

 

[Cross Reference]

James is written to the "Scattered sheep of the House of Israel," not
to the Gentiles and The Body of Christ.

Therefore, All scripture isn't given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)

You got that, everybody??

 

[Cross Reference]

More of, Did God really say, from you. You stumble over the Stone of Stumbling. The letter of James is Scripture, agrees with Paul as well as the OT Scripture as well as the early church Bishops and apologists Ante-Nicene. The letter of James is written by the Holy Spirit and very much contains the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Pate is definitely of another spirit, along with interloper who also seems to worship gnosticism.

 

[Robert Pate]

More of, Did God really say, from you. You stumble over the Stone of Stumbling. The letter of James is Scripture, agrees with Paul as well as the OT Scripture as well as the early church Bishops and apologists Ante-Nicene. The letter of James is written by the Holy Spirit and very much contains the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

There is little to no Gospel in the book of James. There is a lot of law based scriptures, (Things that tell you what to do). It is very Jewish.

 

[beloved57]

There is little to no Gospel in the book of James. There is a lot of law based scriptures, (Things that tell you what to do). It is very Jewish.

Invalid comment and evil speaking against an Apostle of Christ !

 

[Interplanner]

Pate is definitely of another spirit, along with interloper who also seems to worship gnosticism.

Define your terms or shut it.

 

[Cross Reference]

Define your terms or shut it.

You know everything. You define them..

 

[Robert Pate]

It is quiet evident that James was a Judaizer. A Judaizer is one that believes in Jesus, but also believes that you must keep the law of Moses.

James sent men to spy on Peter to see if he was eating with Gentiles. A definite no, no, for a Jew. Well they caught both Peter and Barnabas eating with those nasty Gentiles. When the Judaizers came in Peter and Barnabas went under the table. Paul saw it all and said this to the Judaizers, Peter, Barnabas and everyone else that was there, Galatians 2:14-21.

Later on in the book of Acts Paul brought some un-circumsized Gentiles to the church that was there in Jerusalem. James was the head of the church there. James thought that those Gentiles should be circumsized. Acts 15:1. Well, this started quiet a fuss, Acts 15:2-20. James finally agreed that they should not be circumsized. But James was not about to let them go without laying the law on them again, Acts 15:19, 20, 21.

I am sure that James came into a full understanding of the Gospel and justification by faith at a future date.

 

[1Way1Truth1Life]

There is little to no Gospel in the book of James. There is a lot of law based scriptures, (Things that tell you what to do). It is very Jewish.

Psst.. Jesus was very Jewish. And you also continue with the, Did God really say, spirit. The Gospel is all over the entire NT as well as the OT. You are stumbling of the Stumbling Stone. Beware or you shall be crushed by the Rock.

 

[Robert Pate]

Psst.. Jesus was very Jewish. And you also continue with the, Did God really say, spirit. The Gospel is all over the entire NT as well as the OT. You are stumbling of the Stumbling Stone. Beware or you shall be crushed by the Rock.

I have the freedom to question all things.

I view everything in the light of the Gospel and justification by faith.

If it isn't according to the Gospel I question it. You should to.

 

[1Way1Truth1Life]

I have the freedom to question all things.

I view everything in the light of the Gospel and justification by faith.

If it isn't according to the Gospel I question it. You should to.

We all have the God given freedom to question. This does not mean that we will all question wisely. Nor that we should question at all.

40,000 or whatever denominations claiming to be Christian. They can't all be right. Yet there is Only One Way One Truth One Life. One Jesus. Even here in this discussion is case in point of differences.

So where do we find the Truth? Which denomination? Which teacher? Which new fad? God left us the Scriptures which were written by God the Holy Spirit. God sent out the Holy Spirit whom also wrote the Scriptures. God says we do not need man to teach us for He is our Teacher and we will be taught by Him. So God says in other words to forget the denominations, human teachers, new fads, etc. and goto Him ala Scripture and Holy Spirit.

You say you view everything through the Gospel AND (emphasis added.). Hmmm... Justification by faith. Hmmm...

My original questions went something like this: What does God define "faith" as throughout the entire Scriptures? Not just one or two spots but the entire Scripture. Word studies, concordances, original text, koine Greek lexicons, Hebrew dictionaries are very helpful in this search and study of the Scriptures. And as God says you search the Scriptures for Me yet do not find Me, yet there I AM. The Gospel and Jesus is in the entire Scriptures. Even the OT. The Apostles and early Christians used the OT scriptures to show Jesus. The NT and it's speech on the Gospel will completely agree with the OT on faith and the Gospel. God defines meanings of words. God gave us speech. He gave us His Logos. Logos means Logic/Reason often translated as Word. But not many know this meaning. How many doctrines and beliefs are through the lens of man and his thoughts not through the lens of His Thoughts/Logic/Reason?

 

[Robert Pate]

We all have the God given freedom to question. This does not mean that we will all question wisely. Nor that we should question at all.

40,000 or whatever denominations claiming to be Christian. They can't all be right. Yet there is Only One Way One Truth One Life. One Jesus. Even here in this discussion is case in point of differences.

So where do we find the Truth? Which denomination? Which teacher? Which new fad? God left us the Scriptures which were written by God the Holy Spirit. God sent out the Holy Spirit whom also wrote the Scriptures. God says we do not need man to teach us for He is our Teacher and we will be taught by Him. So God says in other words to forget the denominations, human teachers, new fads, etc. and goto Him ala Scripture and Holy Spirit.

You say you view everything through the Gospel AND (emphasis added.). Hmmm... Justification by faith. Hmmm...

My original questions went something like this: What does God define "faith" as throughout the entire Scriptures? Not just one or two spots but the entire Scripture. Word studies, concordances, original text, koine Greek lexicons, Hebrew dictionaries are very helpful in this search and study of the Scriptures. And as God says you search the Scriptures for Me yet do not find Me, yet there I AM. The Gospel and Jesus is in the entire Scriptures. Even the OT. The Apostles and early Christians used the OT scriptures to show Jesus. The NT and it's speech on the Gospel will completely agree with the OT on faith and the Gospel. God defines meanings of words. God gave us speech. He gave us His Logos. Logos means Logic/Reason often translated as Word. But not many know this meaning. How many doctrines and beliefs are through the lens of man and his thoughts not through the lens of His Thoughts/Logic/Reason?

I agree with your post 100%.

 

[Cross Reference]

We all have the God given freedom to question. This does not mean that we will all question wisely. Nor that we should question at all.

40,000 or whatever denominations claiming to be Christian. They can't all be right. Yet there is Only One Way One Truth One Life. One Jesus. Even here in this discussion is case in point of differences.

So where do we find the Truth? Which denomination? Which teacher? Which new fad? God left us the Scriptures which were written by God the Holy Spirit. God sent out the Holy Spirit whom also wrote the Scriptures. God says we do not need man to teach us for He is our Teacher and we will be taught by Him. So God says in other words to forget the denominations, human teachers, new fads, etc. and goto Him ala Scripture and Holy Spirit.

You say you view everything through the Gospel AND (emphasis added.). Hmmm... Justification by faith. Hmmm...

My original questions went something like this: What does God define "faith" as throughout the entire Scriptures? Not just one or two spots but the entire Scripture. Word studies, concordances, original text, koine Greek lexicons, Hebrew dictionaries are very helpful in this search and study of the Scriptures. And as God says you search the Scriptures for Me yet do not find Me, yet there I AM. The Gospel and Jesus is in the entire Scriptures. Even the OT. The Apostles and early Christians used the OT scriptures to show Jesus. The NT and it's speech on the Gospel will completely agree with the OT on faith and the Gospel. God defines meanings of words. God gave us speech. He gave us His Logos. Logos means Logic/Reason often translated as Word. But not many know this meaning. How many doctrines and beliefs are through the lens of man and his thoughts not through the lens of His Thoughts/Logic/Reason?

And we are given to submit to their [church] authority if we join them?

 

[1Way1Truth1Life]

And we are given to submit to their [church] authority if we join them?

Tricky question with a tricky answer. I believe that each of us need to pray and allow God to choose the church He wants us to goto. Then submit to their authority, but not blindly. Test everything and hold onto the good. The letters to the 7 churches in Revelation had all sorts of wrong things going on but Jesus never said leave the churches but to fix what was wrong in them, stand up each person and overcome in that situation. Each situation is it's own circumstance and I firmly believe should be prayed over and listen and obey what and where God directs for that situation. There are definately certain denominations no Christian should be apart of as they are not Christian but those are different than say a church that has issues such as illustrated in the 7 letters in Revelation. Ultimately though it comes down to what is God telling you to do. When you obey Jesus' teachings you will be His disciple, know the Truth and the Truth will set you free.

 

[Interplanner]

You know everything. You define them..

There isn't communication if you sling a historic term like gnosticism at me with one simple qualification: that it has no definition. Do you see?

The problem at Colossae was not gnosticism. The problem John addressed in letters was not either. Both were Judaism.

In Col there was a neo-Judaism but it did not involve any of the purely Greek-mystery-religion elements or Zoroastrianism. It really was neo. It claimed that the same angels that delivered the Law had shown the impostor leaders at Colossae how to practice the Law today. "Don't touch, don't taste, don't handle." All having to do with Judaism's times, seasons, sabbaths. The upshot was dis-justification. This is interesting because Paul takes a break from the expression "justification by faith" in Colossians. It is missing. Except for this one thing. The damage of the impostors was to 'dis-justify' a believer in the Gospel. The Greek is 'anlogizo' but I'm going on memory here, on the road, will confirm tonight.

In John, the evil is antichrist in the sense that there were Jews who said that Jesus (of Nazareth, in the flesh) was not Messiah. So who was around who would say that? People in Judaism, after the church was up and running. In Judaism, they could not bring themselves to say that the events of Jesus of Nazareth, one end to the other, were the Messiah of Dan 9 or Is 53 etc.

Neither were about secret mystery religions of the time, which are addressed elsewhere.

 

[1Way1Truth1Life]

I agree with your post 100%.

Then I submit that you need to fully include James in your understanding and definition of faith, Jesus and the Gospel. Faith is more than belief. I'm not advocating a works based salvation to earn the way into heaven and neither is James. And neither did Paul.