Evolution... Do we believe?

6days

New member
This is not a question 6days. In fact, by not discussing tohu wa-bohu, it doesn't really say anything. I'm stepping closer to what God's word says.
We have discussed your attempts to compromise Gods Word.
Once again...
Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.
4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning--the first day.
 

everready

New member
What percent difference in DNA would there have to be, to make two things, two different "kinds?"

This is what makes all the difference in the world. "Gods Word"

I Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.


everready
 

The Barbarian

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Barbarian asks:
What percent difference in DNA would there have to be, to make two things, two different "kinds?"

Its not about the percentage difference in DNA.
What determines the different kinds is the way God created.

If you're claiming that creationism is scientifically supported, you'll have to come up with some testable claims.

On the other hand, if you're saying that it's a religious belief, you don't have to do that. Religious beliefs don't need supporting evidence.

So which is it?
 

6days

New member
If you're claiming that creationism is scientifically supported, you'll have to come up with some testable claims.
On the other hand, if you're saying that it's a religious belief, you don't have to do that. Religious beliefs don't need supporting evidence.
So which is it?
Oh..... Barbarian:D
You are a bit forgetful.
I have often said that evolutionism and creationism are beliefs about the past. Both sides interpret the evidence to fit their beliefs. Evidence does fit that our universe, earth and even our bodies were created by an Intelligent Designer...the God of the Bible.

I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.Psalm 130:14
 

Caino

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Oh..... Barbarian:D
You are a bit forgetful.
I have often said that evolutionism and creationism are beliefs about the past. Both sides interpret the evidence to fit their beliefs. Evidence does fit that our universe, earth and even our bodies were created by an Intelligent Designer...the God of the Bible.

I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.Psalm 130:14

Evolution is the movement of creation, the technique of Gods plan. Nothing about this is inconsistent with Faith in the creator of evolution, of Life. It's only inconsistent with the philosophy of bronze age priest who were creating a uniform story for the common man in that age.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Oh..... Barbarian:D
You are a bit forgetful.
I have often said that evolutionism and creationism are beliefs about the past. Both sides interpret the evidence to fit their beliefs. Evidence does fit that our universe, earth and even our bodies were created by an Intelligent Designer...the God of the Bible.

I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.Psalm 130:14


6days,
this is a surprising post actually. Do you mean that creationism is just as flimsy of a theory as evolution?
 

Jose Fly

New member
6days,

Do you still maintain that populations evolve, speciation happens, natural selection happens, and they are all part of the "Biblical model of creation"? Or have you changed your stance on any or all of those things?
 

Jose Fly

New member
Its not about the percentage difference in DNA.
What determines the different kinds is the way God created.
For example
+Genesis 1
+plants bearing seed according to their kind
+trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds..
+great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds
+every winged bird according to its kind.
+ living creatures according to their kinds
+livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind.
+God made the wild animals according to their kinds
+the livestock according to their kinds
+all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds.

That doesn't really provide us with a means to tell whether two different populations are the same "kind". Unless of course you want to argue that there are really only about 7 kinds.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Please try to communicate. So...what is creationism since you have stepped away from that? You have certain beliefs about the 6 days. But they are also beliefs about the past. Yet you sound like there is something wrong about having beliefs about the past!
 

6days

New member
Interplanner said:
. So...what is creationism since you have stepped away from that? You have certain beliefs about the 6 days. But they are also beliefs about the past. Yet you sound like there is something wrong about having beliefs about the past

I'm not sure what you are getting at. Yes we all have beliefs about the past. My beliefs are that God created exactly as stated in Genesis. Genesis is foundational to every Christian doctrine and Genesis is foundational to the gospel. *Theistic evolution erodes the foundations to doctrines of God, Christ, sin, salvation and more. As well, theistic evolution leads younger people to have a low view of scripture...that it does not mean what it says.
IOW... when someone try to make God's Word "more sensible".... watch out, because here comes compromise.
It may not be sensible to someone that Jesus was born of a virgin.... it may not be sensible that the highest mountains on Earth were covered in water.... it may not be sensible that God created in 6 days. But that is what His Word tells us
 

The Barbarian

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this is a surprising post actually. Do you mean that creationism is just as flimsy of a theory as evolution?

He said "evolutionism." Evolutionism is a story creationists make up about science. So both creationism and evolutionism are new religious doctrines made up by creationists. Being religious ideas, neither requires evidence.

Natural selection is a scientific theory. It is supported by a vast body of evidence showing that populations evolve over time.

Being a scientific theory, it must have evidence for it.

See the difference?
 

rainee

New member
Oh..... Barbarian:D
You are a bit forgetful.
I have often said that evolutionism and creationism are beliefs about the past. Both sides interpret the evidence to fit their beliefs. Evidence does fit that our universe, earth and even our bodies were created by an Intelligent Designer...the God of the Bible.

I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.Psalm 130:14

Well said, but please do not forget ye men that The Lord gave the job of naming creatures to Your Predecessor. Which means you can indeed fight all you like about whether a bat should ever be called a bird or whatever like that because you guys are responsible to name them, yes?
 

rainee

New member
He said "evolutionism." Evolutionism is a story creationists make up about science. So both creationism and evolutionism are new religious doctrines made up by creationists. Being religious ideas, neither requires evidence.

Natural selection is a scientific theory. It is supported by a vast body of evidence showing that populations evolve over time.

Being a scientific theory, it must have evidence for it.

See the difference?
Difference?

See a difference?

I thought a scientific theory was based on a scientific method?
The scientific method tests theories, right? Over and over and over again.
When will the scientific method be through?
When will it be finished?
When will what it tests leave the realm of "thought to be correct" or "believed to be true" and say it is "undeniably right and there is nothing more to worry about, we know all there is to it"?
When?

NEVER

And until then you live by faith based on sight.
 

6days

New member
Barbarian said:
Natural selection is a scientific theory. It is supported by a vast body of evidence showing that populations evolve over time.
'Natural selection' means that sometimes the weak die. *Natural selection is only a mechanism that eliminates....it does not create.

Genetic variation that allows the fit to survive and adapt quickly is evidence of an Intelligent Creator... the God of the Bible.*
 

The Barbarian

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Difference?

See a difference?

I thought a scientific theory was based on a scientific method?

Yep. For example, here, we were testing Darwin's theory, which predicts that it should be impossible to formulate a universally-applicable definition of "species." As you might have noticed, that prediction is confirmed.

The scientific method tests theories, right? Over and over and over again.

Yep. Many, many predictions of evolutionary theory have been tested and confirmed.

When will the scientific method be through?

Never. Theories either gain increasing confirmation, or are refuted. Darwin's theory remains increasingly confirmed. Want to see some examples?

When will what it tests leave the realm of "thought to be correct" or "believed to be true"

Around 1940, when it Mendel's work was rediscovered, and it became apparent why new alleles can persist in populations. That pretty much settled it as far as science was concerned. But as more and more predictions (such as Huxley's prediction that birds evolved from dinosaurs) were confirmed, it became more certain.

and say it is "undeniably right and there is nothing more to worry about, we know all there is to it"?

That never happens. Science is based on increasing levels of confidence. Sort of like you believe there will be oxygen atoms in your room overnight. It's not that we know all there is to it. It's just that we have so much evidence to confirm it, that it's foolish to argue otherwise. That's how well-established theories like evolution go.

And until then you live by faith

In God, yes. Science requires evidence. Which is why Darwin won.
 

The Barbarian

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Barbarian observes:
Natural selection is a scientific theory. It is supported by a vast body of evidence showing that populations evolve over time.

'Natural selection' means that sometimes the weak die.

Common misconception. All natural selection does, is tend to eliminate the unfit, and change the alleles available to the population in the next generation. The second thing is the creative part, since it alters the genome of the population to be more fit. And that produces evolutionary novelty. Would you like to learn about some examples?

Natural selection is only a mechanism that eliminates....it does not create.

See above. You've been misled about that. If you'd like to learn about how it does produce new structures and functions we can talk about it. And yes, the fact that God created the universe in which such wondrous things can happen is indeed evidence of His majesty and wisdom.

He's much wiser and more capable than creationists would like Him to be.
 

6days

New member
All natural selection does, is tend to eliminate the unfit, and change the alleles available to the population in the next generation. The second thing is the creative part, since it alters the genome of the population to be more fit. And that produces evolutionary novelty.
That is a common misconception by evolutionists based on wishful thinking... not science.
'Natural selection' can SOMETIMES remove the unfit from a population. It can NEVER add information to the genome. Natual selection is a losing proposition.

"Negative frequency dependant selection is one of the few forms of natural selection that can act to preserve genetic variation,(Notice... SOMETIMES preserve or maintain, but NEVER create. "Negative frequency dependant selection) is one of the few forms of natural selection that can act to preserve genetic variation,[/b]most forms of natural selection lead to the loss of genetic variation as unfit alleles are "weeded out" of the population.[/b]
http://www.uic.edu/classes/bios/bios101/Selexio.htm PRESERVE... NOT CREATE)[/b]most forms of natural selection lead to the loss of genetic variation*as unfit alleles are "weeded out" of the population.
http://www.uic.edu/classes/bios/bios101/Selexio.htm

Or as Carl Sagans ex explains...Evolutionary biologist, Lynn Margulis "Natural selection eliminates and maybe maintains, but it doesn't create."
 

MichaelCadry

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Dear 6days,

Aha!! Found you!! Hey, you should be posting some of that Post #575 here over on my Creation thread. I could use the help. You know, about natural selection, etc. Have fun, you guys. Miss You All (including The Barbarian)!! You've mellowed, The Barbarian. Did anyone tell you that?

God Be With You All,

Michael
 
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