Evolution... Do we believe?

[Jose Fly]

6days,

What are the other criteria (besides an inability to interbreed) for determining "kinds"?

 

[6days]

So "plants" are one kind and "fish" are another?

Only an evolutionist could possibly believe that broccoli and salmon are the same kind of thing.
(They aren't)

 

[Interplanner]

All you have to do is link to your original answer, or restate it. I've done both many, many times here Stripe. What's stopping you?

It is amazing how the 'convenience' of the i.net can make us lazy!

But before you work further on the species issue, be sure you know the 'tohu wa-bohu' issue.

 

[6days]

Why? Because you asked a question that was answered and you're pretending it wasn't?

Very early on in that thread, I expressed my disagreement with Six, and soon afterward, he clarified his ideas.

Since then, you've been wailing.

:chuckle:
Yes... and avoiding questions to himself.

 

[6days]

Good, at least you got started. 1, the first line is a section title like 2:4, 5:1 and many other places in Moses. It is not action in the account.
2, The verb tense for the earth is that tohu wa-bohu was a pre-existing condition.

I mention these things because so much debate on this is either-or, instead of before-after, or first-then later. The text has two completely different indicators before and after the 6 "days."

You avoided the questions I put to you and continue fabricating.
So, Why do you think you are correct and all Bible translation teams are wrong? Why are all Hebrew scholars from every major university wrong, and you are correct?

 

[Interplanner]

The NEB says 'the earth was already...'

The section title comment is as plain as can be from anyone who is familiar with all of Moses. He does it a lot. There are 10 in Genesis. None 'move the action forward.' Rabbi Cassuto (FROM ADAM TO MOSES) says they are memory aids. A young person was given one section title as a prompt by the adult who was teaching him and was expected to be able to say the section from memory until he got to the next section title.

I'll go back and look for a question.

 

[Interplanner]

You must think all the various Bible translation team have it wrong?
Unless I'm mistaken you think it should read that there was chaos.
However.....
NIV
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters

New Living Translation
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth
The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

King James 2000 Bible
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth/
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters

6days,
did you mean your questions here? These won't answer whether the first line is a section title, you know. You have to read Moses style a lot to see it. You see it being more familiar, not less familiar.

2:4
5:1
6:9
10:1
11:10 (3)
25:12
25:19
etc

 

[Stripe]

All you have to do is link to your original answer, or restate it. I've done both many, many times here Stripe. What's stopping you?

Trying to prove to you that Six and I are on the same page is boring enough; trying to convince you that we've already settled this is like watching grass grow — in a sandpit.

If you cared, you'd read the thread. However, we know that your sole aim is to avoid a rational discussion centered around the challenges to your precious religion.

Before you work further on the species issue, be sure you know the 'tohu wa-bohu' issue.

Be sure and read the questions you haven't responded to. :up:

 

[Jose Fly]

Trying to prove to you that Six and I are on the same page is boring enough

What a childish response. "I'd answer, but it's boring". Like I said, this is how I can tell you're not operating in good faith.

trying to convince you that we've already settled this is like watching grass grow — in a sandpit.

You haven't settled it. 6days says populations evolving, speciation, and natural selection happen and are part of the "Biblical model of creation". You say they never happen.

So the only way to settle it is for either 6days to now say those things never happen, or for you to say they do. Which one of those occurred?

If you cared, you'd read the thread.

I did, several times.

However, we know that your sole aim is to avoid a rational discussion centered around the challenges to your precious religion.

So let me see if I have this right....

I'm noting that 6days says populations evolving, speciation, and natural selection happen and are part of the "Biblical model of creation", and that you say they never happen. And given that, I'm asking both of you which one is the more accurate description of "the Biblical model of creation".

Neither one of you will answer and both of you have spent days and days and days dodging and avoiding this question. Yet somehow I'm the one who's avoiding rational discussion?

This is why creationists are such a joke the world over.

Now how about you just man up and engage in a rational discussion?

 

[Stripe]

You haven't settled it. 6days says populations evolving, speciation, and natural selection happen and are part of the "Biblical model of creation". You say they never happen.

:yawn: We went through all this in that other thread.

So the only way to settle it is for either 6days to now say those things never happen, or for you to say they do. Which one of those occurred?

Or you could just pick one of us and have a conversation instead of pretending you've proved something substantive by showing that people might disagree.

This is what evolutionists are good at: Putting up logical fallacies and arguing about them.

When it comes to evidence, they run for the hills.

I did, several times.

Great. Then you will have seen my post disagreeing with Six and you would have seen his clarification. :up:

If you think those two posts are important, feel free to quote them here. Meanwhile, I'm gonna go get some shut-eye.

So let me see if I have this right....I'm noting that 6days says populations evolving, speciation, and natural selection happen and are part of the "Biblical model of creation", and that you say they never happen. And given that, I'm asking both of you which one is the more accurate description of "the Biblical model of creation".Neither one of you will answer and both of you have spent days and days and days dodging and avoiding this question. Yet somehow I'm the one who's avoiding rational discussion?This is why creationists are such a joke the world over.Now how about you just man up and engage in a rational discussion?

:yawn:

This thread was about something other than your inability to read.

 

[User Name]

Six and I are on the same page

So you both agree that the earth is 50,000 years old?

 

[Jose Fly]

Or you could just pick one of us and have a conversation

Ok, I'm picking you. Which happened? Did 6days change and say those things (populations evolving, speciation, natural selection) never happen, or did you change and say they do?

 

[Stripe]

So you both agree that the earth is 50,000 years old?

Why are you so determined to avoid the question?

Ok, I'm picking you. Which happened? Did 6days change and say those things (populations evolving, speciation, natural selection) never happen, or did you change and say they do?

If you want to know what Six believes, ask him. You already know what I believe.

Now, seriously... :yawn:

 

[Jose Fly]

If you want to know what Six believes, ask him. You already know what I believe.

Then you still maintain that populations never evolve, speciation never happens, and natural selection never happens. That's what you stated to me before.

Now we'll see if 6days agrees, as you suggest.

 

[Interplanner]

Trying to prove to you that Six and I are on the same page is boring enough; trying to convince you that we've already settled this is like watching grass grow — in a sandpit.

If you cared, you'd read the thread. However, we know that your sole aim is to avoid a rational discussion centered around the challenges to your precious religion.



Be sure and read the questions you haven't responded to. :up:

I went back a page, but it was only the 3-4 translations, so he didn't really take up my question about tohu wa-bohu. Which questions are you referrring to?

 

[Interplanner]

False... You just need to believe what God's Word says.

This is not a question 6days. In fact, by not discussing tohu wa-bohu, it doesn't really say anything. I'm stepping closer to what God's word says.

 

[Stripe]

Then you still maintain that populations never evolve, speciation never happens, and natural selection never happens. That's what you stated to me before.

Now we'll see if 6days agrees, as you suggest.

And whatever his answer, you will have spent hours on a non-issue.

Let us know when you're ready to talk evidence. :up:

 

[The Barbarian]

What a childish response. "I'd answer, but it's boring". Like I said, this is how I can tell you're not operating in good faith.

Over the years, Stipe has been effectively tamed. Nowadays, he rarely lets himself be drawn out into making an argument for his new religious doctrines. Mostly, he limits himself to generic complaints and insults.

You get 100 points for every time you can get him to actually attempt an argument with real assertions. You get 20 points for every time you can get him to claim he's already answered the question, without him actually answering it.

 

[The Barbarian]

Only an evolutionist could possibly believe that broccoli and salmon are the same kind of thing.
(They aren't)

What percent difference in DNA would there have to be, to make two things, two different "kinds?"

 

[6days]

What percent difference in DNA would there have to be, to make two things, two different "kinds?"

Its not about the percentage difference in DNA.
What determines the different kinds is the way God created.
For example
+Genesis 1
+plants bearing seed according to their kind
+trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds..
+great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds
+every winged bird according to its kind.
+ living creatures according to their kinds
+livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind.
+God made the wild animals according to their kinds
+the livestock according to their kinds
+all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds.