ECT Does what we do reflect what we believe?

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No, I wouldn't claim that. Please let me speak for myself.



Being born of God is what makes a believer impeccable.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

As with Jesus who was tempted in all ways as man, however, His love for His Father kept Him. He couldn't sin for that reason. So it is for the new born Of God to grow into..

Question: Do you believe one gets to know God immediately upon receiving his new birth from above that he would have such a love Jesus demonstrated that compelled Him to keep faith with His Father?
 

elohiym

Well-known member
Why would Paul claim to have been blameless under the law before he was saved?

Paul claimed to be alive without law at some point, and that would likely be before the age of accountability when he was an innocent child. Then the law came ...

And why does Paul tell us that Jesus is the end of the law for righteousness for those who believe?

Because, as he also said, the law was made for murderers not righteous people.


And why does Paul tell us that we are no longer under the law but under grace?

Because the covenant changed.


Think about why John tells us that sin is transgression of the LAW. :think:

At that time there were people who were transgressing the law while claiming they had no sin.
 

elohiym

Well-known member
As with Jesus who was tempted in all ways as man, however, His love for His Father kept Him. He couldn't sin for that reason. So it is for the new born Of God to grow into..

Do you think He was tempted to steal but resisted the urge? God? No way! Impossible.

He wasn't tempted to sin in any way. The devil tested (tempted) Him regarding His identity: "If you are the Son of God ..." perform such and such work as proof. We are tempted the same way all the time: "If you are Christian ..." [insert crazy assertion and requirement of proof].

Question: Do you believe one gets to know God immediately upon receiving his new birth from above that he would have such a love Jesus demonstrated that compelled Him to keep faith with His Father?

Yes.
 

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Yes. That's why I say "a state of mind."

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


You are confusing one's mind with his heart. God doesn't look upon one's mind but, his heart. It is man's resonsiblity to keep himself pure for which redemption provided the way. The Christian who understands will establish himself upon the solid Rock of redemption before he starts building his house.
 

elohiym

Well-known member
Exodus 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before Me."

The unrighteous need to read and understand that commandment. When they build temples to false God's, righteous people should tell them that they are violating the commandment.

A righteous person (one in Christ) can't violate that law. It's impossible to believe in one God and multiple God's at the same time. If that was the only commandment, the believer in one God would be impeccable. That is how 1 John 3:9 would apply to not being capable of violating that one commandment.

We can run through all ten commandments and see how faith eliminates the need to be under those laws.
 

elohiym

Well-known member
You are confusing one's mind with his heart. God doesn't look upon one's mind but, his heart.

Figuratively there is little if any distinction.


It is man's resonsiblity to keep himself pure for which redemption provided the way.

I don't have to keep myself from believing in false gods because I only believe there is one true God. It's not my choice to believe that but what I have been convinced of, my belief, my faith. That is what precludes sin, what I believe. And then what I believe naturally reflects what I do, e.g. don't worship idols (Acts 17:28-30).

The Christian who understands will establish himself upon the solid Rock of redemption before he starts building his house.

Establish myself? No. I was born by God's will, not my will.

John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
 

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Exodus 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before Me."

The unrighteous need to read and understand that commandment. When they build temples to false God's, righteous people should tell them that they are violating the commandment.

Why? The carnal mind can't receive the things of God.

A righteous person (one in Christ) can't violate that law.

If he gets it correctly, he won't. Getting it correctly is the issue. Many who believe think they can go on living life as usual and have heaven too.

It's impossible to believe in one God and multiple God's at the same time.

If after becoming a Christian, you haven't died to yourself doesn't your "Self" [vanity] remain the God of your life?

If that was the only commandment, the believer in one God would be impeccable.

Simply by being born again or must he also work out his salvation in awe of God as well?

That is how 1 John 3:9 would apply to not being capable of violating that one commandment.

If making moral choices remain an issue in the Christians life how is it you believe he is all of the sudden, incapable of sinning or falling away?

We can run through all ten commandments and see how faith eliminates the need to be under those laws.

Faith eliminates none of them if you will understand the fact that Jesus didn't come to do away with them.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Paul claimed to be alive without law at some point, and that would likely be before the age of accountability when he was an innocent child. Then the law came ...

No, Paul was not talking about the age of accountability. He was talking about before the conviction that came when he understood his very thoughts accused him, which is why he mentions "thou shalt not covet". This is Paul's point in Romans 6-8. He's speaking of the purpose of the law...why it is good and yet killed him once he realized it found him guilty and could never make him holy.

Because, as he also said, the law was made for murderers not righteous people.

First he explained that all men sin, and the law was made to show man his guilt. You seem to ignore how Paul has already explained in Romans 5 about the righteousness of FAITH, which has nothing to do with the law.


Because the covenant changed.

That's a canned response that says nothing.


At that time there were people who were transgressing the law while claiming they had no sin.

Which is inevitable for anyone who is under the law. The law is simply a schoolmaster until faith comes. This is why I say you are still under the law. You just think you're keeping it well enough to squeak by. You aren't.
 

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Figuratively there is little if any distinction.

Big difference! "With the mind one believes unto the converting of the soul". If his heart doesn't follow through, where is his salvation? Where is the proof of conversion?

I don't have to keep myself from believing in false gods because I only believe there is one true God.

And if you haven't died to your "self" you, by choice, live unto your "Self". You obviously have no understanding about your own soul.

Establish myself? No. I was born by God's will, not my will.
You also don't understand that passage of scripture and if you think you do, you do so believing someone's error ridden opinion. God's will for man ended after the resurrection of Jesus Christ. That is what make evangelism so important that man would realize it..

John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

You presume you are included without knowledge.
 

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No, Paul was not talking about the age of accountability. He was talking about before the conviction that came when he understood his very thoughts accused him, which is why he mentions "thou shalt not covet". This is Paul's point in Romans 6-8. He's speaking of the purpose of the law...why it is good and yet killed him once he realized it found him guilty and could never make him holy.



First he explained that all men sin, and the law was made to show man his guilt. You seem to ignore how Paul has already explained in Romans 5 about the righteousness of FAITH, which has nothing to do with the law.




That's a canned response that says nothing.




Which is inevitable for anyone who is under the law. The law is simply a schoolmaster until faith comes. This is why I say you are still under the law. You just think you're keeping it well enough to squeak by. You aren't.

Good word, dazed except, there is a new covenant provided for us by God called "Redemption". A whole new beginning that if violated [apostasized] there remains no more sacrifice for sin. Take another read of Heb 6:4-6 to see what I am getting at.
 

elohiym

Well-known member
Why? The carnal mind can't receive the things of God.

Evidently, it helps keep them in line when coupled with threat of punishment.

1 Timothy 1:9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers ...


If he gets it correctly, he won't. Getting it correctly is the issue. Many who believe think they can go on living life as usual and have heaven too.

Well, I'm saying one can't be an idolater and a believer at the same time. If one believes in the true God, it precludes belief in a false God and renders the commandment superfluous to the believer.


If after becoming a Christian, you haven't died to yourself doesn't your "Self" [vanity] remain the God of your life?

That would only be a Christian in name. The one who is in Christ has His life, lives His life. Galatians 2:20 is necessarily esoteric.

Simply by being born again or must he also work out his salvation in awe of God as well?

I'm save by His life, nothing more or less. Working out my salvation has been mostly about learning from God to understand what being saved by His life means and how I'm supposed to live His life.

If making moral choices remain an issue in the Christians life how is it you believe he is all of the sudden, incapable of sinning or falling away?

The parable of the sower shows several different types of people, most who hear the word and receive it but things don't work out for them in the end. They probably called themselves Christians before they gave up or just got it wrong. The last type in the parable represents those who are born of God, converted; they just bear fruit, nothing about them falling away or stumbling.

Faith eliminates none of them if you will understand the fact that Jesus didn't come to do away with them.

The issue is who the law was made for and why. Considering the intent of the law and prophets is fulfilled in the golden "rule," why do you need to have ten or more commandments written down for you? Do you want someone to murder you? No? Then don't murder them. Simple. No rule needed, unless you are a murderer in your heart, then a rule and penalty is what you need until you discover the reason why you shouldn't murder.

The key is knowing WHY you shouldn't murder. It's not just about keeping a law; it's about why it's wrong to murder another child of God.
 

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Evidently, it helps keep them in line when coupled with threat of punishment.

1 Timothy 1:9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers ...




Well, I'm saying one can't be an idolater and a believer at the same time. If one believes in the true God, it precludes belief in a false God and renders the commandment superfluous to the believer.




That would only be a Christian in name. The one who is in Christ has His life, lives His life. Galatians 2:20 is necessarily esoteric.



I'm save by His life, nothing more or less. Working out my salvation has been mostly about learning from God to understand what being saved by His life means and how I'm supposed to live His life.



The parable of the sower shows several different types of people, most who hear the word and receive it but things don't work out for them in the end. They probably called themselves Christians before they gave up or just got it wrong. The last type in the parable represents those who are born of God, converted; they just bear fruit, nothing about them falling away or stumbling.



The issue is who the law was made for and why. Considering the intent of the law and prophets is fulfilled in the golden "rule," why do you need to have ten or more commandments written down for you? Do you want someone to murder you? No? Then don't murder them. Simple. No rule needed, unless you are a murderer in your heart, then a rule and penalty is what you need until you discover the reason why you shouldn't murder.

The key is knowing WHY you shouldn't murder. It's not just about keeping a law; it's about why it's wrong to murder another child of God.

What "Christian" denomination are you, may I ask? Something is missing. Perhaps you explaining this verse might help me with my understanding: John 17:3
 

elohiym

Well-known member
No, Paul was not talking about the age of accountability.

He was talking about a time he wasn't dead in sin. That has to be when he was a child.

First he explained that all men sin ...

The context is all men sinned under the law. Babies are not under the law. They can't transgress the law. Paul was a baby once, and he was alive at that time without the law.

You seem to ignore how Paul has already explained in Romans 5 about the righteousness of FAITH, which has nothing to do with the law.

I'm not ignoring anything. I've explained on this thread how a person can be free from idolatry through faith alone. How can you commit idolatry as Christian? If you can't, then you shouldn't argue with me.

That's a canned response that says nothing.

I figured that Christians would understand the differences between the old and new covenants.

Which is inevitable for anyone who is under the law. The law is simply a schoolmaster until faith comes. This is why I say you are still under the law. You just think you're keeping it well enough to squeak by. You aren't.

No. You just can't comprehend what I believe. Until you do, I strongly suggest you stop bearing false witness against me. That is a sin, you know.
 

elohiym

Well-known member
What "Christian" denomination are you, may I ask?

Am I required to belong to an approved sect? :chuckle:

I believe what God has taught me. See John 6:45. I couldn't tolerate being around folks like you so I stay away from the sects. Just look at how many times you've claimed I'm not a Christian. How are you tempting me any less than the devil?

Something is missing.

Maybe you are the one missing something? I realize you don't think so, but maybe you should consider that.

Perhaps you explaining this verse might help me with my understanding: John 17:3

Ignorance of God is eternal death(Eph 4:18); knowledge of God is eternal life.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
He was talking about a time he wasn't dead in sin. That has to be when he was a child.
On the contrary, it was when he was a Pharisee. There was never a time when anyone, especially a Jew, was alive without the law. So clearly, Paul is speaking of how the law hadn't yet convicted him of sin. He felt alive in his self-righteousness. Paul lived his life like the Pharisee who said, "Thank God I am not like other sinners." He had kept the letter of the law, but it wasn't until he was convicted of the sin in his heart that he was slain by the law. He says the same here.

Philippians 3:4-8
4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.​

The context is all men sinned under the law. Babies are not under the law. They can't transgress the law. Paul was a baby once, and he was alive at that time without the law.

Paul was born under the law, as all men are....especially the Jews. The law has existed from the beginning in the garden of Eden. Whether babies can "transgress" the law or not has nothing to do with anything here.

I'm not ignoring anything. I've explained on this thread how a person can be free from idolatry through faith alone. How can you commit idolatry as Christian? If you can't, then you shouldn't argue with me.

I "argue" with you because you're wrong about what Paul is saying in Romans 7. Whatever you're mumbling about idolatry is a rabbit trail I won't go down.

I figured that Christians would understand the differences between the old and new covenants.

You figure you're right about many things, but you're not.

No. You just can't comprehend what I believe. Until you do, I strongly suggest you stop bearing false witness against me. That is a sin, you know.

Grow up, Elo. I'm not bearing "false witness" against you. You prove me right by the words you speak. You simply don't understand that you can't straddle the fence between law and grace without getting yourself a major wedgie.
 

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Am I required to belong to an approved sect? :chuckle:

I believe what God has taught me. See John 6:45. I couldn't tolerate being around folks like you so I stay away from the sects. Just look at how many times you've claimed I'm not a Christian. How are you tempting me any less than the devil?

Maybe you are the one missing something? I realize you don't think so, but maybe you should consider that.

Ignorance of God is eternal death(Eph 4:18); knowledge of God is eternal life.

When I read you I read someone who worships what he believes to be his religious independence; his, "just Jesus and me", thinking. Perhaps a better question I should asked, not that I believe you would have answered is, who are you reading?

OMT: You mentioned 2 Covenants in your reply to glorydazed. What, may I ask, do you believe the second one is?
 

Cross Reference

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On the contrary, it was when he was a Pharisee. There was never a time when anyone, especially a Jew, was alive without the law. So clearly, Paul is speaking of how the law hadn't yet convicted him of sin. He felt alive in his self-righteousness. Paul lived his life like the Pharisee who said, "Thank God I am not like other sinners." He had kept the letter of the law, but it wasn't until he was convicted of the sin in his heart that he was slain by the law. He says the same here.

Philippians 3:4-8
4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.​

The law, for the Pharisee, was something kept by the flesh. Where does your accusation of "self-righteousness" fit in if Paul didn't view it as such? Faith was in the doing of it, the same as it is for the believer in Christ. The only thing different is the Law. The Law is now a Person and His Law can't be kept without faith.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
The law, for the Pharisee, was something kept by the flesh. Where does your accusation of "self-righteousness" fit in if Paul didn't view it as such?

Paul did view it as such.


Faith was in the doing of it, the same as it is for the believer in Christ. The only thing different is the Law. The Law is now a Person and His Law can't be kept without faith.

Please provide a verse that shows the law is now a Person or that "faith was in the doing of it."
 
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