Does the Sun Move According to the Bible?

[Ben Masada]

Does the Sun Move According to the Bible?

Yes, if the text is allegorical or parabolic which is the case of Joshua 10:13 when the sun and the moon stood still until the armies of Joshua aka the Israelites won the war against five Canaanite kings. The analogy is that the sun and the moon were represented by the powers-to-be aka the five kings that were caught stuck into the Cave of Makkedah and hanged from five trees at the end of the battle.

 

[Daniel1769]

When a weatherman tells his TV audience that the sun will rise at 7:00 AM tomorrow morning, most people know that it isn't the sun that rises but the earth that rotates. Others, who don't know any better, may take him literally.

The same thing happens with the Bible. Nowhere in the Bible does it overtly and definitively state that the sun revolves around the earth, but some interpret it that way. Likewise, nowhere in the Bible does it overtly and definitively state that the earth is flat and not a globe, but some interpret it that way. What "Scripture says" is a matter of personal interpretation, and personal interpretation differs from person to person.

How do they know? Do you mean they know or they believe what they're told?

 

[User Name]

Nonsense. When I write "Scripture says" it is necessarily implied proper hermeneutical methods have been brought to bear. Your sarcasm and attempts at ridcule does nothing to move the discussion forward.

That wasn't sarcasm. I've actually encountered people (mostly Christian fundies) on this forum and elsewhere who actually believe that the Earth is flat. And speaking of hermeneutics, The Oxford Dictionary of the Jewish Religion states:

What did the universe look like to the biblical authors? The most common picture is a three-storied cosmos. The earth is a disk floating on an expanse of water, with another expanse of water above it. The sky, or firmament, is an arched structure, a dome, with the celestial bodies fixed in it and with openings through which rain, from the upper watery expanse, falls to earth.​

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

That wasn't sarcasm. I've actually encountered people (mostly Christian fundies) on this forum and elsewhere who actually believe that the Earth is flat. ]

No matter to me. The issue remains:

If you want to argue the interpetation then do so at the textual level using proper grammatical-historical hermeneutical methods. Asserting "I disagree" is not an argument anyone can work with. :AMR:

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4384754#post4384754

AMR

 

[User Name]

If you want to argue the interpetation then do so at the textual level using proper grammatical-historical hermeneutical methods.

Again, speaking of using proper grammatical-historical hermeneutical methods, The Oxford Dictionary of the Jewish Religion states:

What did the universe look like to the biblical authors? The most common picture is a three-storied cosmos. The earth is a disk floating on an expanse of water, with another expanse of water above it. The sky, or firmament, is an arched structure, a dome, with the celestial bodies fixed in it and with openings through which rain, from the upper watery expanse, falls to earth.​

 

[tetelestai]

Earth rotates. Not center of universe.

You can't prove it.

 

[Hawkins]

What humans have is a 3D concept with a stable and constant time concept to explain things around conceptually. These concepts are proven inaccurate in terms of science.

So baseing on our inaccurate concepts to judge...<well whatever conclusions you draw here>

Yet nothing can be confirmed until we can have a set of more accurate human concepts of space and time.

 

[User Name]

You can't prove it.

Can you prove that the earth isn't "a disk floating on an expanse of water, with another expanse of water above it. The sky, or firmament, is an arched structure, a dome, with the celestial bodies fixed in it and with openings through which rain, from the upper watery expanse, falls to earth"?

 

[Daniel1769]

Can you prove that the earth isn't "a disk floating on an expanse of water, with another expanse of water above it. The sky, or firmament, is an arched structure, a dome, with the celestial bodies fixed in it and with openings through which rain, from the upper watery expanse, falls to earth"?

No, you can't prove it isn't like that because that's how it is. However, from my reading, the water only came from the upper watery expanse to cause Noah's flood. It does not still happen this way. Of course you just believe the heliocentric globe model because that's what you learned in school.

For further reading, I suggest the following:

Zetetic Astronomy by Samuel Rowbotham
Terra Firma by David Wardlaw Scott
100 Proofs the Earth is Not a Globe by William Carpenter
The Flat Earth Conspiracy by Eric Dubay
200 Proofs the Earth is Not a Spinning Ball by Eric Dubay

There are other good books, but those are probably the best I've come across.

 

[tetelestai]

Can you prove that the earth isn't "a disk floating on an expanse of water, with another expanse of water above it. The sky, or firmament, is an arched structure, a dome, with the celestial bodies fixed in it and with openings through which rain, from the upper watery expanse, falls to earth"?

Empirically, by myself, no.

 

[exminister]

You can't prove it.

You cannot prove anything to someone who is unwilling to learn.

A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject - Winston Churchill

 

[tetelestai]

You cannot prove anything to someone who is unwilling to learn.

I've spent countless hours reading about heliocentrism vs. geocentrism.

Neither can be proven true or false.

 

[Bright Raven]

Yes, if it stopped it had to be moving.

Joshua 10:12-13 New International Version (NIV)

12 On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel:

“Sun, stand still over Gibeon,
and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.”

13 So the sun stood still,
and the moon stopped,
till the nation avenged itself on[a] its enemies,
as it is written in the Book of Jashar.

The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day.

 

[Daniel1769]

You cannot prove anything to someone who is unwilling to learn.

A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject - Winston Churchill

Actually, I would bet that ALL geocentrists HAVE changed their minds. We are taught the heliocentric globe model as children. It takes much research to abandon the model that has been force fed to you for your entire life. I was intrigued by geocentrism as started reading about it just to read the philosophy of bygone time. But the more I read, the more convinced I became.

YOU are most likely guilty of that which you accuse others. I grew up with the heliocentric globe model. I read the geocentric and flat earth material. I delved deeper into the heliocentric globe model to check it against the geocentric model. I've read more on both models that most people have read on the the commonly accepted heliocentric globe model that they accept as gospel truth. Have you actually studied geocentric arguments? I doubt it. You sound like a fanatic that will not question the worldview you were taught as a child. However, to those who have questioned that model that they us as children, the more childish it becomes. Once you accept that you have been wrong your entire life and scrutinize that model, you will find that it is laughable that you once accepted something so nonsensical with absolutely no experimental evidence.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Now rap is in the mix:

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...-rap-battle-with-b-o-b-over-flat-earth-theory

"So, a Twitter spat between astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson and rapper B.o.B over the flat Earth theory has turned into a full-blown rap battle (and it's way better than Drake vs. Meek Mill)."



AMR

 

[User Name]

Now rap is in the mix:

Rap is one of the worst things to happen to human culture. Just thought I'd get that off my chest.

And yes, the sun does move. It revolves around the galactic center.

 

[Ben Masada]

Does the Sun Move According to the Bible?

No, if we are talking according to Physics but, metaphorically, yes, That's what happened when Joshua arrived in Canaan and five Canaanite kings got together in a coalition, and went into war against the Israelite Army. That's what happened when the sun stood still upon Gibeon and the Moon in the Valley of Ajalon.

So many times the Sun can move according to the Bible, if you can distinguish between the literal and the allegory. There are a few allegories to explain the power of HaShem in the Bible aka the Tanach. This allegory of Joshua is meant to show that the Lord, not only caused the universe to exist but also that He is on the control of the laws of Nature.

Many who do not understand the role of allegories, parables and analogies can even become atheists for lack of understanding of the symbols. For instance, the sun and the moon in the sky mean powers to-be at their rise. In the case of the sun and the moon coming to a stop, mean loss of power and the decadence of kingdoms.

Joshua was in war with 5 Canaanite powerful nations which were giving him and to the armies of Israel a very hard time to succeed. Having been a very successful Army commander, Joshua commanded that the Israelites advanced and tried harder to get the best of them. The 5 kings of the Canaanites were being chased by the Israelites and, passing by a famous cave called the Cave of Makkedah, the 5 kings, all as if they were one entered the cave to hide themselves and the chasing was stopping and causing a pause in the war as if the armies of the enemies had giving up the fight. Later, much later, when the case was reported for the records, the text was embellished in the allegory as if the sun and the moon which represented the power of the 5 kings had stopped in the sky while the Israelite Army proceeded with the chasing. As Joshua was reported that the enemy kings were hiding in the very interior of the Cave of Makkedah, he commanded that stones be rolled to the entrance of the Cave till all the battle was finished. Then, Joshua ordered the chasing to proceed till the battle was over. It was then that Joshua commanded that the 5 kings be taken out of the Cave and be hanged from 5 trees.

The whole allegory is recorded to this day as if the sun and the moon, the power of the 5 kings had come down. The whole allegory starts with Joshua 10 and is dealt with down to the next 26 verses.

 

[Selaphiel]

Sometimes, instead of speaking... Proverbs 17:28

The same advise should be taken by creationists. Denying the reality of the theory of evolution is just as ridiculous as denying heliocentrism.

The creationists in this thread who are attacking the OP are a prime example of people living in glass houses throwing stones.

The OP is out of his mind of course. Seriously, debating geocentrism vs heliocentrism in 2016 is so idiotic that it would be too silly even for a Monty Python sketch.

 

[tetelestai]

Seriously, debating geocentrism vs heliocentrism in 2016 is so idiotic that it would be too silly even for a Monty Python sketch.

Yet you can't prove heliocentrism true.

Nor can you prove geocentrism false.

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!!!

 

[Interplanner]

The same advise should be taken by creationists. Denying the reality of the theory of evolution is just as ridiculous as denying heliocentrism.

The creationists in this thread who are attacking the OP are a prime example of people living in glass houses throwing stones.

The OP is out of his mind of course. Seriously, debating geocentrism vs heliocentrism in 2016 is so idiotic that it would be too silly even for a Monty Python sketch.

If you mean denying the presuppositions or the ability of evolution to explain complex machinery in organisms, then you are quite mistaken. It is the concoction of 19th century racists who wanted to stay on top of the pile, fraught with artificial knowledge. Darwin didn't have much confidence in it on complex questions, and had to be pushed by the cynicism of Huxley to publish it.

But on the question of celestial mechanics, our system is indeed heliocentric. The question of descriptive language was solved years ago in such essays as Lewis' "Horrid Red Things" in GOD IN THE DOCK. A child may associate the word 'poison' with some odd thing she saw in the kitchen one day, but the point is she knows it was dangerous, life-threatening. When she is an adult and a trained nurse, she will use the proper chemical name for the same thing but it is still dangerous, life-threatening substance. So it is with certain language in the Bible.

Conversely, modern scientists like to sneer at the Bible for being written in an age (they thought for years) when the stars were merely a mile up. But then they realized what was in Ptolemy's Almagest--a 1st century declaration that the earth was a tiny mathematical point in a massive universe. The ancients knew all along.