Does God Decieve?

Arthur Brain

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
JudgeRightly said:
Doser:

Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Lest you also be like him. - Proverbs 26:4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs26:4&version=NKJV

“Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces. - Matthew 7:6 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew7:6&version=NKJV

Arty: :madmad: Y u no answer me! :allsmile:
Click to expand...

How about you give a straight answer as to what it means to be "saved" JR and how that comes about? Never mind your buddy doser, just how about you set things out?

Up to that?
 
ok doser

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Hawkins said:
The verse is written in an absolute sense of God's sovereignty.

Exodus 8:32 (NIV2011)
But this time also Pharaoh hardened his heart and would not let the people go.

When written from the perspective of God's absolute sovereignty,

Exodus 9:12 (NIV2011)
But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses.
Click to expand...


that's an interesting consideration

i had always interpreted Exodus 8:32 as pharoah's free will choice and Exodus 9:12 as God using him to His purposes
 
W

woodeneye

BANNED
Banned
Hawkins said:
The verse is written in an absolute sense of God's sovereignty.

Exodus 8:32 (NIV2011)
But this time also Pharaoh hardened his heart and would not let the people go.

When written from the perspective of God's absolute sovereignty,

Exodus 9:12 (NIV2011)
But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses.


I actually know how all mankind can be fooled by a delusion. The name of such a delusion is "Evidence". Such a delusion is introduced by our secular education system ever since our childhood. Humans believe that something needs to be evidenced in order to considered a truth or fact. Our reality however doesn't run this way. Instead, humans in majority rely on putting faith in a "middle man" standing between a truth and humans in majority to reach a truth.

For an example, the "middle man" between a scientific truth and humans in majority is our scientists. Humans in majority don't have any evidence before they consider the existence of black holes a scientific fact. It is our scientists who act as a "middle man" to gather the evidence for the rest of human kind to get to such a truth, by faith!


Another example. Can you evidence one out of the million meals you ever had in your life time? You can't. We can to what you ate in a particular meal if you or a reliable eyewitness recorded down what you ate for the rest of human kind to believe with faith. That's way how we can reach the truth of what you ate. More often, it remains the only way! It is a process of human witnessing where evidence itself has no bearing!

This is how this very reality works, the delusion says otherwise though.
Click to expand...
When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. Its impossible for God to do anything deceitful!

Sent from my SM-J727P using Tapatalk
 
C

comingfrom

BANNED
Banned
woodeneye said:
When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. Its impossible for God to do anything deceitful!
Click to expand...

For thou, O God, hast proved us:
Thou hast tried us, as silver is tried.
Psalm 66:10
 
Caino

Caino

BANNED
Banned
Right Divider said:
Include the scripture so that we can verify.
Click to expand...

2 Chronicles 18 18-22

18Micaiah continued, “Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing on His right and on His left.

19And the LORD said, ‘Who will entice Ahab king of Israel to march up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’

And one suggested this, and another that.

20Then a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD, and said, ‘I will entice him.’

‘By what means?’ asked the LORD.

21And he replied, ‘I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’

‘You will surely entice him and prevail,’ said the LORD. ‘Go and do it.’

22So you see, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of these prophets of yours, and the LORD has pronounced disaster against you.”


Job 1:12


12 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your 1power, only do not put forth your hand on him.” So Satan departed from the presence of the Lord.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
Caino said:
2 Chronicles 18 18-22

18Micaiah continued, “Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing on His right and on His left.

19And the LORD said, ‘Who will entice Ahab king of Israel to march up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’

And one suggested this, and another that.

20Then a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD, and said, ‘I will entice him.’

‘By what means?’ asked the LORD.

21And he replied, ‘I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’

‘You will surely entice him and prevail,’ said the LORD. ‘Go and do it.’

22So you see, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of these prophets of yours, and the LORD has pronounced disaster against you.”

Job 1:12

12 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your 1power, only do not put forth your hand on him.” So Satan departed from the presence of the Lord.
Click to expand...
I see no "partnering with Satan" there. You have a vivid imagination.
 
H

Hawkins

Active member
woodeneye said:
When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. Its impossible for God to do anything deceitful!

Sent from my SM-J727P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

You are right. God doesn't deceive. However when said in terms of His absolute sovereignty, the proper phrase may be "He allows such a delusion to happen."
 
H

Hawkins

Active member
ok doser said:
that's an interesting consideration

i had always interpreted Exodus 8:32 as pharoah's free will choice and Exodus 9:12 as God using him to His purposes
Click to expand...

Ancient Jews took the perspective of God's absolute sovereignty with a priority that sometimes today's people may have to consider that perspective a contradiction.


1 Chronicles 21:1 (NIV2011)
Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.

1 Chronicles 21:10 (NIV2011)
“Go and tell David, ‘This is what the LORD says: I am giving you three options. Choose one of them for me to carry out against you.’ ”


versus,

2 Samuel 24:1 (NIV2011)
Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.”

2 Samuel 24:12 (NIV2011)
“Go and tell David, ‘This is what the LORD says: I am giving you three options. Choose one of them for me to carry out against you.’ ”


It's a similar situation to say about the delusion.
 
W

woodeneye

BANNED
Banned
comingfrom said:
For thou, O God, hast proved us:
Thou hast tried us, as silver is tried.
Psalm 66:10
Click to expand...
I know that's what the scripture says but, a more correct translation might be, as silver is refined. Today, if you used the phrase " at my job, we try silver ", not too many people would understand your meaning. If you said " we refine silver ", it takes on a different meaning. This doesn't mean that we are changing the Bible. We are simply reading it the way we talk today.


Sent from my SM-J727P using Tapatalk
 
C

comingfrom

BANNED
Banned
I know that's what the scripture says but, a more correct translation might be, as silver is refined. Today, if you used the phrase " at my job, we try silver ", not too many people would understand your meaning. If you said " we refine silver ", it takes on a different meaning. This doesn't mean that we are changing the Bible. We are simply reading it the way we talk today.
Click to expand...

Thank you.

And He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver:
and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver,
that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD,
as in the days of old,
and as in former years.
Malachi 3:3-4
 
C

comingfrom

BANNED
Banned
Right Divider said:
The "us" there does not include you.
Click to expand...

Thank you.

And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness,
to humble thee,
and to prove thee,
to know what was in thine heart,
whether thou would keep His commandments, or no.
Deuteronomy 8:2
 
7djengo7

7djengo7

This space intentionally left blank
6days said:
No, I don't think God decieves, but I'm not sure why He sends delusion to those who already have rejected Him.
Thess. 2:12 “God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false”
Click to expand...

For the consideration of anybody who claims that God has deceived/does deceive people:

By "deceive", do you mean "cause someone to believe falsehood"?

Is that what you mean, when you say that God deceives people; that God is causing them to believe falsehood?

Could you give some examples of specific falsehoods you'd say God has caused people to believe?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top