You and Mr Religion will spend eternity chasing John Calvin all over hell.
Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
You and Mr Religion will spend eternity chasing John Calvin all over hell.
fishrovmen
Active member
As usual, you didn't address the post in any way at all. And as I have told you several times before, You yourself have studied Calvin's work, I have never read any.
fishrovmen
Active member
Robert,
Do you understand that to believe in predestination has nothing whatsoever to do with Calvinism exclusively?
Nor does election, nor grace, nor depravity.
Do you understand that to believe in predestination has nothing whatsoever to do with Calvinism exclusively?
Nor does election, nor grace, nor depravity.
You are delusional. It has everything to do with predestination, election and depravity. Read "The Canons of Dort"
fishrovmen
Active member
Since you like to read dictionaries much more than the Bible, look up the word "exclusively".
fishrovmen
Active member
And you will pass right by me chasing Joel Osteen to autograph your limited edition of "Your Best Life Now"
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Agreed . . .
The regenerated saints of the past, throughout history, have always held the doctrines that Calvin taught. These doctrines listed in your post constitute the Gospel message.
In fact, Gottschalk of Orbais lived 750 years prior to Calvin and taught Limited Atonement; and even emphasized double predestination, which many neo-Calvinists do not. To quote:
"Just as God, by free grace has unchangeably predestinated all His elect to life eternal, so likewise the same unchangeable God, by a just judgment has unchangeable predestinated all the reprobate, who in the day of judgment are damned on account of their evil merits, to merited eternal death." Gottschalk, "Fragmenta Omnia"
John Calvin did not invent or suddenly discover these biblical doctrines. They have been faithfully and historically held and believed by notable teachers as the result of their studies of God's Holy Word and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
There is no scripture about God predestinating anyone to eternal life.
The God that you serve is an unjust, unmerciful tyrant that delights in sending people to hell.
It's your opinion, wrong as it is. It's your right to be wrong.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Everlasting life is found ONLY in Christ Jesus. Believers were chosen in Him through adoption as sons, and accepted in Him, redeemed by His blood, forgiven of sins, in order that we might share in His inheritance (Kingdom) where He will rule forever and ever. Ephesians 1:3-12
<blasphemy deleted>
Yes, you understand me correctly.
Meaning convicted by the Holy Spirit, that is what i mean by prompted, i agree fully that we would never come to God, He comes to us, but unlike you, i believe we can say no, to an offer of salvation and that in no way diminishes the sovereignty of God. We have to have a will, or we would be incapable of love. I agree fully though that our will is limited. The "free" part to me, means free to receive to or reject Christs offer of salvation and also to respond in obedience or not to what God wishes us to walk in (in other words, respond to those things He is wanting from us in order to further conform us into the image of Christ in this life, or will we grieve His Spirit by refusing to willingly cooperate only. Again, limited and not entirely free.
Would you want a love relationship in which you had to force someone to love you? God doesn't want a robot.
You may need to reword that question, because in order to respond, there has to be first an action to respond to.
If you are asking can a man hear the gospel and be saved without any action of the Holy Spirit? No. As i stated earlier in the thread, we are drawn by God via the Spirit.
Its not an ability we possess, its an action by the Father -
John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
However, all men are given the action :
John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."
So the impasse here between you and I boils down to all and world. You limit it, and i dont, i believe what it says.
False, i believe this fully:
Romans 3:10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 There is no one who understands; no one who seeks God.…
Which is why I believe we have to first be drawn by the Spirit of God.
Anytime.
Rosenritter
New member
AMR, would you do me a favor and define "us" in Ephesians 1:4?
Ephesians 1:4 KJV
(4) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Who is Paul speaking of when he says "us?"
Rosenritter
New member
I wasn't saying anything about Calvinists having racial inclinations. But according to Calvinism, it sure seems that God plays favorites depending upon which continent you live on. He chose to put all the unregenerate people on abandoned islands and the like where the gospel can't reach!
Rosenritter
New member
According to Calvinism,
* You cannot believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. Only God can believe on Jesus and overlay that onto you.
* You can think you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and shall be saved, but if you were not "chosen" then God tricked you into thinking you were believing on Jesus, but you could not because he did not give you the "ability" to repent.
* You can hate and curse God, but if God chose you from the beginning of the foundation of the world, you will be saved whether you like it or not.
The sheer absurdity of this scenario should give people pause.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Since you read these verses to apply universally . . why are not all men universally saved?
What in heaven or earth can thwart God's (supposed) will to universally save all men?
We are, it takes hearing and believing. You just hate the fact that all people are saved by Jesus Christ because it means you aren't special.
popsthebuilder
New member
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Sinners are the reason God's will to universally save all men does not happen?
So why do some people hear and others do not, if it is really God's will all hear and believe?
If all people were saved by Jesus Christ, we would not be having this discussion about why all people fail to hear and believe.
And if all people end up saved despite evidence to the contrary, then I will be just as special as all the rest . . so why would I hate that fact?
Do you have a clue what you are talking about . . .? :kookoo: