Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?

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popsthebuilder

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Rosenritter said:
A question for you, Pops.... would you say that your belief in Universal Restoration depends on Calvinism, or that your belief in Calvinism depends on Universal Restoration? Which would you say is more foundational to the other?
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I'm not sure about restoration. But universal reconciliation is a belief I hold based on the writings of the bible and other core religious texts, as is the belief that GOD is all knowing. Neither of them lean on the other or are required for the other as far as I am concerned. To be completely honest; through revelation it was made obvious that GOD is all knowing and coincidence/ chance is not an actual real thing. The same cannot be said for universal reconciliation; though it is supported by nearly all texts I have read, it wasn't made apparent through the initial help and guidance I was given.

So I guess if one had to be chosen to be of more significance or truth, it would have to be the belief that all is ultimately ordained by GOD.

Hope that helps

Could you explain the significance of your question please?

Peace

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popsthebuilder

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Grosnick Marowbe said:
Here's an example how one inherits eternal life:

Hear the Grace Gospel.
Place ALL of one's faith in Christ as their Savior.
Be sealed, indwelt, and baptized (not by water) into the Body of Christ.
Receive the righteousness of Christ.
Realize that you cannot lose your position in the Body of Christ.
Realize that you will not be judged or suffer condemnation for your sins.
You must believe in the death and resurrection of Christ who paid for the sins of
ALL humanity on the cross. However, only those who place their faith in Christ will reap
the benefits of Christ's death and resurrection.
Unbelievers will be judged according to their WORKS and cast into the Lake of Fire.

Personally, I believe in the Trinity. Father, Son and Holy Spirit, yet, these three are ONE.

Any questions?
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I have a question; does it state in scripture that ALL will be judged by their works?

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popsthebuilder

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Grosnick Marowbe said:
I mean if we hear the Grace Gospel we have the free will to choose to accept it or reject it. If we hear some other religion, philosophy, Cult, etc, we have the ability to freely place our faith in anything we so desire. God created humanity with that ability to choose. I realize Calvinists believe humanity isn't capable of that, because, humanity is depraved and will not accept the things of God. They also believe that God chose the Elect before the foundation of the world, etc, etc. I've heard the Calvinist stuff before, over the years. You guys interpret Scripture differently than most and therefore, there cannot be a meeting of the minds due to the different interpretations. You're not gonna agree with me and I'm not gonna agree with you. We both can agree on that fact.
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So you think that the majority is right?

Does it say that most will come through the wide gate, and that they are rightly guided, or does it say the few rightly guided will enter through the side gate along the narrow path?



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Grosnick Marowbe

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popsthebuilder said:
I have a question; does it state in scripture that ALL will be judged by their works?
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Revelation 20:12 states: "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

This verse speaks of the UNSAVED only.


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2 Corinthians 5:10 states: "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

This verse speaks of the rewards given out to "Believers." They will receive rewards or lose rewards according to what they did in the flesh, However, there will be NO condemnation for them. They will spend eternity in Heaven.
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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popsthebuilder said:
Then why sit here and ridicule others if you won't even take the time to correct them?

Your works still precede you. And they aren't good.

Peace
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Well, as I've explained to you before, you lack "Spiritual Discernment," therefore, you cannot see the work I'm doing here. Again, see how that works? I feel as if I'm posting with an eight-year-old child.
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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popsthebuilder said:
Didn't you just state a day or so ago, that Calvinist were generally intelligent?

Do you really think intelligent people are wilfully ignorant?



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Intelligent people can be both ignorant and lack common sense at the same time.

I have a Nephew who is thirty-one years old with a college education and very intelligent. However, he lacks common sense and he is ignorant of Spiritual matters, etc.
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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musterion said:
The God of the Bible does not hold people accountable for that which He knows they cannot help. He does hold them accountable when they choose not to do right or choose to do wrong. That's the whole point of one's conscience bearing witness against him and being judged according to one's works.

That is just.

Can the same be said of Calvinism's depiction of God? No. From before creation, those He reprobated were intended to be totally unable to do what would please Him -- which He alone can enable -- and yet He holds them accountable for it just the same, as if they DID know and WERE able to obey Him, but chose not to.

That is unjust.
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It is also illogical, however, the Calvinist doesn't see it that way.
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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Ask Mr. Religion said:
Your pattern is predictable.

You you are caught here all alone with no one to inject themselves into the thread and run interference for you. When so cornered and asked to offer a defense of your beliefs, you panic and wave off challenges, proceeding to post a bunch of naked assertions and streams of consciousness hoping to move the visible page along such that your inability to defend your views might be lost.

This panic mode tactic does not relieve you of the burden to support your claims (1 Peter 3:15). Return to here and teach us how you handle the matter at hand.

AMR
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Panic isn't in my vocabulary. Your attempt to do an "Armchair Psychoanalysis" has failed and imploded on itself. Good try though, however, NO cigar for you. And, you can forget that "snifter of Brandy," as well.
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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Apparently, AMR believes he has me figured out. The real problem is the difference between his interpretation of any given Scripture verse and my interpretation. The two don't mix well. He sees a totally different meaning to certain verses, then, I do. Therefore, it's difficult, if not impossible to have a meeting of the minds. My fellow "Grace Gospel" Believers are in tune with one another because we share a common bond. We may disagree on minor issues, however, on the fundamental beliefs, we are in agreement. Since Calvinists give a different meaning to Scripture verses it's like trying to communicate with someone who speaks a different language than our own.
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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I believe God to be totally logical in every aspect. Calvinism does not fit into God's character and intent. Therefore, it's easy for me to disregard it as having any validity.
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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I wonder how many posters on TOL have actually read the entire Bible cover to cover? If they have they're able to see the difference in which God dealt with His "Chosen People" in the Old Testament and the way He deals with both Jews and Gentiles in the New Testament. By reading the Old Testament we see one aspect of God while in the New Testament we see another. God ALWAYS has dealt with humanities faith or lack of faith in both the Old and New Testaments. Faith or lack of faith is of GREAT importance in the Bible. Faith just may be the most important word in the Bible. It's also the determinating factor on where we as individuals will spend eternity.
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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Calvinists believe humanity cannot choose to place their faith in Christ as their Savior. They believe God chose before the foundation of the world who He would save (The Elect) and who He would send into eternal damnation. They believe man plays no part in his eternal destination. According to the Calvinist, God already chose where you'll spend eternity. In fact, according to Calvinism, God makes it impossible for a certain portion of people to hear the Gospel and respond to it. Calvinists believe humanity is totally depraved and doesn't want anything God has to offer.

The "Hyper-Calvinist" believes that God creates ALL sin Himself and then, He sends people to eternal damnation for committing those sins He Himself created. I ask you, does that make sense? Well, it does to the Calvinist. Of course, they always deny the fact that anybody can actually understand Calvinism and that's their way of denying what is said about their "Belief System." They will respond that I don't know what I'm talking about and yet with a little study, anybody can view Calvinism for what it is. They seem to think they're the ONLY one's that can interpret their system correctly and truthfully. Yet, their beliefs are found through almost any "Google Search." It's not as difficult as they make it seem.
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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A Cult is a Cult no matter how old it is. Some cults have been around for a few years some many years and the Calvinist Cult has been around for hundreds of years.
 
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