Gee!
Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Gee!
HOGWASH!
You should know better than to teach that.
People are saved by hearing and believing the Gospel. You want to believe that you are saved before you are saved. That's really dumb and not scriptural.
Some of those that heard and believed the Gospel on the day of Pentecost had participated in the crucifixion of Christ, Acts 2:23 and Acts 2:36. I guess you believe that these people were predestinated to be saved before the foundation of the world?
popsthebuilder
New member
Universalism is a vague belief in a sort of GOD. It can pertain to any number of doctrines or the lack there of.
Universal reconciliation is the doctrine that all will ultimately return to GOD from whence it came.
Really vague, I know, but that is the jist of it.
Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk
I know more than you care to admit.
Augustinianism
Augustinianism can be broadly defined as theology related to the teachings of Augustine (354-430), one of the early church fathers. However, the term Augustinianism usually has a more specific reference to Augustine's doctrines of the depravity of man and the sovereignty of God's grace in salvation. It was these views that were specifically opposed in the Pelagian controversy during Augustine's later years. These doctrines of Augustine were later revived during the Protestant Reformation and reflected in the teaching of reformers like Martin Luther and John Calvin. As a result, Calvinism in particular is sometimes referred to as Augustinianism. - Theopedia
Augustinianism can be broadly defined as theology related to the teachings of Augustine (354-430), one of the early church fathers. However, the term Augustinianism usually has a more specific reference to Augustine's doctrines of the depravity of man and the sovereignty of God's grace in salvation. It was these views that were specifically opposed in the Pelagian controversy during Augustine's later years. These doctrines of Augustine were later revived during the Protestant Reformation and reflected in the teaching of reformers like Martin Luther and John Calvin. As a result, Calvinism in particular is sometimes referred to as Augustinianism. - Theopedia
Calvinism is very little more than Reformed Augustinian theology. Nearly everything that Augustine believed about Immutability and it's corollary doctrines (Predestination, Exhaustive Divine Foreknowledge, Total Depravity, etc) survived Calvin fully intact. There's really not a dime's worth of difference between what Calvin and Augustine taught when it comes to the issues that impact your correct understanding that Calvinism makes God the author of sin.
In fact, I'd wager that you can't make even one single argument against any Calvinist doctrine that makes God the author of sin that would not equally apply to Augustinian doctrine. They are that similar - they're practically identical.
Resting in Him,
Clete
John Calvin runs around freely within the confines of your mind, ever planting seeds of false doctrine. When those seeds mature, they bring forth TULIPS.
Calvinists not only wear the mask, they put on the whole costume.
Ask Mr. Religion
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Of course they were. That is the ordinary means of salvation, Robert. The moral ability for "hearing", that is, hearing with spiritual ears, was something given to them by God for only those given ears to hear, will hear. Again, Ezekiel 36:26. No on hears until God acts first, for beforehand they are quite spiritually dead per Scripture: Jer. 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; Eph. 2:2; Eph. 2:4-5; Titus 3:5; John 3:19; Rom. 3:10-12; 5:6; 6:16-20; Eph. 2:1,3;1 Cor. 2:14.
As I noted above, those converted at Pentecost were indeed given ears to hear by God, Who had chosen them before time and made sure that they would be given ears to hear at the exact time He allotted them to do so. Indeed, all who come to faith were chosen by God before the foundation of the world. No more or no less. Your view places obligations upon God for granting faith, making Him a debtor to the lost man's "wise" choice.
Scripture everywhere teaches us that one's salvation is God's unconditional doing, not man's: Deuteronomy 7:6-8, Deuteronomy 10:14-15, Lamentations 5:21, Isaiah 55:11, Amos 3:2, Jeremiah 1:5, Matthew 7:23, Matthew 24:22-24, Matthew 24:31, Luke 12:6-7, John 6:37-39, John 6:44, John 6:65, John 15:16, John 17:19, Acts 2:23, Acts 11:18, Acts 13:48, Acts 17:26, Acts 18:27, Romans 8:28-39, Romans 9:11-16, Romans 11:5, 1 Corinthians 1:26-31, 1 Corinthians 8:3, Ephesians 1:1-14, Ephesians 2:4-10, 1 Thessalonians 1:4-5, 1 Thessalonians 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, Philippians 1:29, Philippians 2:12-13, 1 Timothy 5:21, 2 Timothy 1:9-10, 2 Timothy 2:19, 2 Timothy 2:25, 1 Peter 1:1-2, 1 Peter 1:4-5, 1 Peter 1:20, 2 Peter 1:5-11.
The very faith exercised by the one given a new heart to believe is God's work in that man. Don't rob God of His glory and turn Him into a debtor that "owes" man something for his choices (Romans 11:35; Job 41:11).
AMR
:nono:
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Christ did not pray for the wicked world at large, let alone die for it. John 17:9
You must understand WHO Christ was preaching to. The answer is The Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. You, AMR and the other Calvinists around TOL don't know how to "Rightly Divide" the word of God.
Calvinists are among the most confused and ignorant posters on TOL.
Rosenritter
New member
A question for you, Pops.... would you say that your belief in Universal Restoration depends on Calvinism, or that your belief in Calvinism depends on Universal Restoration? Which would you say is more foundational to the other?
Rosenritter
New member
Luke 23:34 KJV
(34) Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
That sounds to me that Jesus was praying for the wicked world at large.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Jesus was not "preaching" in John 17:9.
He was praying.
You wrongly divide the word of God, by claiming it speaks different truths at different times to different people. That is the core error of Dispensationalism.
Give up, nobodies buying your bill of goods.
I know that. I was reminding you who Jesus was preaching to.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
How so?
Context reveals He was praying for the soldiers who were commissioned to execute Him.
It is YOU who is the "Queen of Error" Nangster.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Jesus was not preaching. He was praying.