Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?

[Rosenritter]

The souls of man will last through eternity. How else could someone inherit the Heavenly kingdom of God after they die? Also, those who die without Christ will spend eternity in the "Lake of Fire." (Hell) That's one of the fundamentals of the Christian faith, so how could it be a lie, LA?

Uhm.... they can inherit the heavenly kingdom because Jesus Christ has promised to raise them from the dead when he returns. You know, that gospel of the resurrection of the dead that Paul defines as the Gospel in 1 Corinthians 15?

1 Corinthians 15:16-19 KJV
(16) For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
(17) And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
(18) Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
(19) If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.


The resurrection of the dead that he says without which we are without hope and of all men most miserable? Have you ever heard of it?

 

[Rosenritter]

I guess LA is good at calling names, however, not so good at providing proof.

Grosnick, did you skip your medication? How do you expect someone to reply to you within 4 minutes on a forum like this?

 

[Rosenritter]

I pretty much dispute anything you have to say. Most of the time you don't even make sense. The rest of the time you're in error.

You display the mindset of a cultist Grosnick. You reject plain scripture and refuse to answer logical questions. Is that where you want to be? Want to know the last time I heard someone say "I reject any scripture you would show me?" I was confronting someone about a cult leader they were following. One that was saying that the wives should take half their family's money and donate it to him (because legally half was hers) but if it was the husband he was to take all the family's money and give it to him, and tell his wife "You don't have a voice, woman!" The response was "I refuse to listen to any scripture you show." Your response is shockingly similar.

 

[Rosenritter]

I don't know exactly what Rose believes. What she has shown is a sense of compassion and understanding and that counts for a lot in itself as far as I'm concerned. You undersell her where it comes to focusing on a topic just as you undersold yourself not so long back when I told you it was unlike you to be obtuse...

And he thanked you for that post... he's a crazy nut, that one. Maybe trying to fulfill the obtuse potential you mentioned?

If you wanted to know what I believe, it's pretty simple. Just ask me.

1. I believe there is one God, and he has revealed himself to us in these latter days by his name Jesus. I find it sufficient to describe the nature of God by the words He Himself has left for us in scripture. Mark 12:29, John 1:1-3 KJV, 1 John 5:7 KJV

2. I believe that Jesus Christ only hath immortality, but that the gift of God is eternal life, and without this gift we would perish and die. 1 Timothy 6:16 KJV, Romans 6:23 KJV, John 3:16 KJV

3. I understand the most fundamental aspect of Christianity is to love God and love thy neighbor, to forsake all and follow Jesus. Mark 22:37-40 KJV, Mark 19:21 KJV, Matthew 25:40 KJV.

Besides this I also consider fundamental the hope of the resurrection of the dead, which Paul defines as the gospel. 1 Corinthians 15:1-58 KJV, and that the scripture should serve as our source of revelation, not the words of would-be prophets or parrots of man-made creeds and traditions. Matthew 15:9 KJV, Colossians 2:8 KJV, 2 Timothy 3:16 KJV, Acts 5:29 KJV.

4.I know enough not to take to heart the mindless ramblings of tares among the wheat and or the slander from evil hearts of goats among the sheep, for we are judged by Christ, not by the wolves in sheep's clothing. Revelation 22:11 KJV, Matthew 10:25 KJV, Isaiah 66:5 KJV

5. While I also know that we are all equal in Christ Jesus, male or female, I will mention that I am male, married to my wife, and expecting my first child. "Rosenritter" is also a male moniker (meaning "Knight of the Rose") and my avatar is also male. I apologize for any confusion arising thereof.

1 Peter 3:15 KJV

 

[Rosenritter]

Matthew was written to the House of Israel, not to the Gentiles. You goofed again.

There's a reason the abbreviation spells "MAD" ... so God can only destroy the souls of Israelites, you suggest? That still disproves your assertation Grosnick. Have you ever shown even one scripture that says souls are immortal?

Ezekiel 22:27-28 KJV
(27) Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain.
(28) And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.

 

[Rosenritter]

So according to how you believe, what you just said, would the God of Abraham be the "God of the Living" if Abraham were never raised to life but his "soul continued to live forever?"

Answer the question please Grosnick.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

LA stated this: "The point is that you said the soul can not be destroyed even in hell. The Bible says you lied. (again)"

Where does the Bible say that, LA?

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

I know I am sort of butting in to you guys' long time conversation here (136 pages) but I just can't believe this is even a conversation: The idea that any human being is born predestined to Hell, and cannot even repent and believe even if he or she truly has faith, is not only vile and repugnant, but it is absolutely ridiculous and it spits in the face of what Christianity and Christ's mission is all about.

Furthermore, any person who perverts Sacred Scripture in such a away as to present such a vile doctrine as being true, is also vile and repugnant, and absolutely ridiculous, and spits in the face of what Christianity and Christ's mission is all about.

 

[truthjourney]

That is not the full story.

Men persuade God by love.

LA

Maybe God persuades men by His love. 1 Chr. 16:34; Ps. 36:5, Ps.100:5, Ps. 103:11, Ps.107:1, Ps.136:1, Zeph.3:17, Lam. 3:22-23

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

There's a reason the abbreviation spells "MAD" ... so God can only destroy the souls of Israelites, you suggest? That still disproves your assertation Grosnick. Have you ever shown even one scripture that says souls are immortal?

Ezekiel 22:27-28 KJV
(27) Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain.
(28) And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.

I prefer not to answer inane questions.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

We know from other Scriptures that Hell is the eternal destination for the unsaved. Man can only kill the body, however, God is able to take the everlasting soul of a man, raise his body at the end and cast both into the Lake of Fire. There is no such thing as annihilation regarding the soul. It will live forever. throughout eternity. Besides; only the unsaved need to fear the Lake of Fire. The Saved go to be with the Lord when they die physically.

Matthew 25:46 “These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life"


2 Thessalonians 1:9 " Who shall be punished* with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;"

Jude 1:7 "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


Matthew 25:41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[ok doser]

Do you have any idea how appalled my sister would be if she were to read your comments? Trust me you would be on the receiving end of some of the most impassioned profanity you would ever hear.

do you expect amr to be swayed by the revelation that your sister is an ill-mannered vulgarian with no self control? :freak:

 

[Crucible]

Have you ever shown even one scripture that says souls are immortal?

The immortality of the soul is the notion that the soul is not of the world, but preexisted the vessel. In ancient Jewish belief, all souls were created from the beginning. When God breathed into Adam, his soul became 'living' (as opposed to dormant).

There doesn't need to be a literal declaration in Scripture, it's simply a fact of Abrahamic belief.

 

[ok doser]

The immortality of the soul is the notion that the soul is not of the world, but preexisted the vessel. In ancient Jewish belief, all souls were created from the beginning.

There doesn't need to be a literal declaration in Scripture, it's simply a fact of Abrahamic belief.

jeremiah 1:5

 

[Catholic Crusader]

The immortality of the soul is the notion that the soul is not of the world, but preexisted the vessel. In ancient Jewish belief, all souls were created from the beginning. When God breathed into Adam, his soul became 'living' (as opposed to dormant)

There doesn't need to be a literal declaration in Scripture, it's simply a fact of Abrahamic belief.

Not to be nit-picky, but "eternal" indicates no beginning and no end, but "immortal" indicates there is a beginning, but no end. The human spirit is immortal.

 

[Crucible]

Not to be nit-picky, but "eternal" indicates no beginning and no end, but "immortal" indicates there is a beginning, but no end. The human spirit is immortal.

There's 'from the beginning', and then there's 'before the beginning'. There's always debate along these lines as to what was from and what was before. For example, I came across a theology recently in which it was proposed that Satan and the angels had fallen before the beginning, which is not the typical notion.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Revelation 20:12 states: "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

You'll notice that at this final judgment, the unsaved are judged by their WORKS, not their SINS, why? Because Christ paid for the sins of ALL of humanity at the cross. Since this is the case, I would have to submit that a baby that dies in childbirth due to abortion, being stillborn, or by disease, would automatically go to be with the Lord. Why? Because, they had no opportunity to accomplish good or bad WORKS, therefore, God: in His mercy, would have nothing to judge them by. This is logic and speculation speaking here. However, it seems SOUND to me.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Allow me to submit a caveat. Even though Christ died for the sins of all Humanity, there is a prerequisite to reaping the benefits of His sacrifice. That would be, one must first hear the Gospel and place their faith in Christ as their Savior. If one dies, after a lifetime of rejecting the Gospel; I believe their sins still are with them, even though God will judge them by their WORKS and not their sins at the final judgment. In that respect, they will be eligible to be cast into the "Lake of Fire" to suffer for eternity.

In conclusion, Christ died for the sins of ALL of humanity, therefore, forgiveness of ALL sins is available to ALL of humanity. However, not all will accept God's free gift made possible by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Hence, they will be cast into the "Lake of Fire" to suffer throughout eternity.

 

[Arthur Brain]

do you expect amr to be swayed by the revelation that your sister is an ill-mannered vulgarian with no self control? :freak:

Or rather a loving parent who, like any other would be appalled at any notion that their children were born simply to suffer a fate of torment at the hands of some 'god'.

Not that you were being sincere in your inquiry in the first place of course, sad little troll that you happen to be, and quite a prissy one also goin' by the above...

 

[ok doser]

Or rather a loving parent who....

...would spew out "some of the most impassioned profanity you would ever hear"


we got that part


my question to you had to do with your apparent belief that this would somehow influence amr's thinking :dizzy: