Originally posted by Z Man
Christ's sacrifice happened so that those whom God had elected to salvation could be justified, despite their sins. It wasn't in our interest that Christ was crucified; it was for God's interests - for His glory.
Even though we are vile and evil creatures who hate God with a passion, He took it upon Himself to pay for our punishment so we wouldn't have to. If He paid for everyone's sins, then no one would go to hell. Simple logic tells us that. If what you believe is true, Godrulz, then either;
a) Everyone is saved; Universalism
or
b) Christ's blood was spilt in vain for those who go to hell, and His sacrifice was a failure (since not all will be raised, as Christ said He would do in John 6:39, 44)
a) Universalism is not true (we concur). This is the problem I have with the Commercial Transaction Theory (literal 'payment') of the atonement (1/4 major views on the atonement). A literal payment would lead to universalism with the price paid for all, regardless of man's receiving or rejecting it. I subscribe to the Moral Government of God theory (public vs retributive justice).
Under either view, some, but not all are saved. Calvinism attributes this to God's unsearchable will and right to do what He wants (1/2 true, but God lives up to a moral law based on truth and righteousness). Other views rightly attribute the 'failure' to man (and Satan) and His evil choice to break the heart of God. Man, not God, is culpable and responsible for a life and eternity separate from His glory. We are created for fellowship. While we were yet sinners, He died for us. He died for me, I will live for Him.
Others say: who cares...I will do it 'my way' (Frank Sinatra song) and suffer the avoidable consequence.
Christians say: "THY (God) will be done"
Unbelievers say: My will be done. God says to them: "thy (man) will be done" (with the result of eternal ruin that He never intended for them and died for them to prevent this tragedy).
b) Christ will raise up all those who will believe in Him (His sheep)to the end (as promised). He will not raise up those who reject Him (He never said He would, it they hate Him). The atonement is efficacious for all provisionally in the same way an antidote will be effective against poison for those who take it. The problem is not with the antidote, if a person refuses to take it. The problem is not with the atonement or its effectiveness (efficacious) or scope (unlimited, for all). The blood was not spilt in vain, nor was the sacrifice a failure (in a sense it was for those who continue to rebel to the end...but this is not God's fault).
You have created a false dichotomy assuming there are only 2 conclusions (and assuming a particular view of the atonement and Calvinism).
c) A third option is that the atonement was INTENDED for all (not just the arbitrary 'elect') and is efficacious (effective) based on the GROUNDS of salvation (reason for which/by which we are saved)= grace and the death/resurrection of Christ.
The other factor is the CONDITIONS (not without which) of salvation evidenced in revelation: genuine repentance, faith (which involves love, trust, obedience, submission, knowledge, mental assent), and continuance/perseverance to the end.
You are correct that God saves us despite being sinners, but it is expected that we will be transformed (rather than remain in a sinful state perpetually...unless we take up the cross, we cannot be His disciples with a hope of eternal life).
- Unless you repent, you will perish (Lk.)
- Belief vs unbelief (Jn. 3; I Jn.); Jn. 1:12 Those who receive Him will be children of God; those who reject Him will perish and are children of wrath.
- Warnings of the possibility of apostasy... Rev. 2;3; Hebrews
Calvinistic assumptions confuse, not clarify the issue (TULIP).
The biblical picture is that God created everything 'very good', but free moral agents messed it up (possibility necessary for there to be genuine freedom, love, relationship). God implemented a plan of redemption that saves many (cf. ark/Flood), but not all. The plan is powerful and brilliant, yet many reject it. Jesus wept over Jerusalem. God is grieved and heart-broken and seeks to save the one lost sheep, causing rejoicing in heaven over one sinner that repents.
God's will to redeem 'whomsoever' is thwarted by some individuals with the consequence of separation from God. This is a higher good and loving as opposed to making us robots that must conform to His dictatorship. Hell comes out of the love and holiness of God. It is a place for selfish people who do not want to be with God anyway.
Salvation is primarily a love relationship (2 parties, not unilateral) that must be freely entered into and maintained. It is not a mere metaphysical change in our being. It is not just a decree of a Sovereign Dictator who unjustly saves some while condemning others with no consideration of their moral choices (love God or live for Self). God's moral law of love, justice, and holiness are based on truth/reality, not His mysterious, arbitrary will.
Yes, He does not have to save anyone, but it is more glorious that He loves us all impartially and wants everyone (not just the elect) to come to repentance, because He is not willing that any should perish (2 Peter 3:9). The Passion of the Christ shows God's great love for sinful man, the awefulness of sin, and the hope for all who will surrender their swords of rebellion against the Almighty and say 'Lord have mercy on me a sinner'. A theology that says God cannot or will not save all who come in humility and brokenness is not worthy of the God of Scripture as revealed in Jesus.
The other problem is a Calvinistic view that sees life as a fatalistic cosmic blueprint meticulously controlled by God's will (good and evil).
The Scriptural view is a warfare model where there is a battle for the souls of men. God is responsive and creative, not all-controlling. Moral agents are a factor in the universe, as is genuine free will. The victory was assured at Calvary and will be achieved at the end of the age. In between, there will be casualities and Satan will kill and destroy souls that God wanted to redeem. cf. WW II D-Day and VE-Day.