Does Calvinism limit God?

smaller

BANNED
Banned
Peace 1way

I already answered the small, lying is not necessarily a moral wrong

So, we have RIGHTEOUS LYING and RIGHTEOUS murder. Would you like to add RIGHTEOUS EVIL to your list???? It is the logical tri-fecta.
same with a righteous killing of an evil murderer

Would you consider the murder of David's baby a RIGHTEOUS MURDER 1say??? You know...the killing of a BABY for the "freewill" act of the father???

But since smallishness violates the truth of the meaning of (righteous) killing and (evil) murder, I don’t expect him to handle any lesser truth with more personal integrity, because smallishness is a willful moron.

You deny that God created EVIL as well 1say. Isaiah 45:7. Bad translation again??? Or it just doesn't fit what YOU think or what?
God did not cause murder nor morally wrong behavior, so stop trying to justify your own constant examples of immorality and strife.

Well Mr. drywell, God not only MURDERED DAVID'S BABY FOR DAVID'S ACTS, but CAUSED DAVID'S WIVES TO COMMIT ADULTERY IN PUBLIC.

Of course I am sure you will call it RIGHTEOUS ADULTERY right???

What an idiot.

enjoy!

smaller
 

smaller

BANNED
Banned
It would appear that you have no answers. This is a good thing.

Your righteous MURDER, LYING, ADULTERY, AND EVIL premise was getting rather thin...
 

Z Man

New member
HAHA! 1 Way, smaller has you cornered. That's hilarious, to see you squirm like this, coming back with an unintelligent reply, like "Moron".

:darwinsm:

Your such an intelligent being in the ways of biblical doctrine ( :rolleyes: ), yet you cannot succomb to truth if it alters your religious thoughts and inclinations.

Pride is very destructive...
 

LightSon

New member
Originally posted by smaller
... There is no DENIAL that God MURDERED AND LIED.
You are mistaken smaller-----pay close attention now and I'll prove it to you.

I deny "that God MURDERED AND LIED". Therefore you are mistaken when you assert there is no denial of this.
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
If I lie or murder that does not mean that God lies or murders (contrary to His holiness). If he allows or permits free moral agents to do these things, it does not make Him responsible for it. He used lying spirits (...that were on a leash cf. Satan in Job), but did not cause them to lie. He used ungodly nations to judge Israel, but they also will experience justice.
 

smaller

BANNED
Banned
Revelation 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
 

LightSon

New member
Originally posted by smaller

lol Lightson....

Any common blindman can deny the rising of The Sun...;)
LOL Okay smaller; that was a good retort. :D

Nevertheless, I contend that for you to charge God with murder and lying is off base.

You seem to claim a high regard for scripture, e.g. you claim to "deny no damnation texts." Why? Why do you care about the scriptures? Does scriptural veracity matter to you? To claim "God lies" is contrary to the scriptures which are emphatic in their assertion that "God cannot lie."
 

smaller

BANNED
Banned
Peace Lightson

The texts and references to verify that God DID murder, lie, cause adultery, create evil are just a few posts above Lightson. God DID do all these things DIRECTLY HIMSELF.

In addition on the basis of OMISSION OR COMISSION He is DIRECTLY IMPLICATED in ALL ACTS of these types in addition to EVERY EVIL ever perpetrated i.e. as a bystander who is ABLE to intervene.

Of course if these things do not suit your doctrines, then you, like godrulz and 1Way are compelled to disregard the PLAIN TEXT in favor of your preconceived Pollyanna notions and are not interested in the God that has presented Himself IN WORD AS WORD, but are more interested in the "god" you have formed in your own head.

You know I have stated many times Lightson that ALL THINGS SERVE GOD who is Greater than all things and cited many texts for the postion. In this understanding I don't have a problem with God doing ANYTHING because He obviously has greater purposes than I can grasp in their entirety.

If I didn't believe it was for a good reason I would not adhere to this God or His Word.

So for a FACT God DIRECTED LYING, caused the death of countless babies including Davids own son, caused Davids wives to commit adultery in public knowledge, and YES, created evil. I do not have to "blame" a bad translation like 1Way does when he hits the wall on his nonsense.

Any good "believer" worth his "salt" should be asking themselves WHY rather than making up fairy tales about their "god" such as 1Way or godrulz.

The Word answers these questions in an excellent manner as well, and there is no need to be ashamed of these contradictions or deny His Word.

All things serve The Maker of all things.

Why?

Because He is GREATER than all of these "things." He can and will SHOW HIS EXCEEDING SUPERIORITY AS LOVE being FAR ABOVE His "creation" and "allowance" of ALL THINGS.

enjoy!

smaller
 

1Way

+OL remote satellite affiliate
Still avoiding the discussion, attacking the person = coward

Still avoiding the discussion, attacking the person = coward

Z Man – We understand your frustrations with not being able to rightly handle scripture over one of dozens of examples of God changing via divine repentance via

demonstrations of God not doing what He said and thought He would do,

but your unwillingness to stop voiding some aspects of scripture from meaning, along you’re your violating it with manmade traditions which contradict the message given, represents a violence against God and His word that we respectable and biblically consistent people can not condone, and of course we feel that God plainly condemns those who do as you do, as previously revealed from God’s word about not voiding scripture of meaning and contradicting it with man’s traditions.

So we consider the source of your remark, your a person who is so educated and biblically trained that you can not even deal with the following half of a verse (Jonah 3:10 subsection “b”) without

contradicting it

and without providing a cogent bible based alternative meaning that does not contradict what the text plainly says,

so frankly Mr. Z, who cares if you can’t tell that smaller’s statements that God does “murder” and (immoral) lying are purely moronic claims, your willfull blindness to such matters speaks louder than all your self (deluded) sense of self righteousness. Your thoughts are here for all to see, as well as my consistent reminder of them. :eek: You forgot about that? Ok, here it is again, Z Man, the willfully self condemned bible voider and contradictor.

This is the Z in his typical willfully blind splendor.
__________________Jon 3:10b
God repented from the disaster
that He had said He would bring
upon them, and He did not do it.

_________:darwinsm: Z Man = :dunce: duh, says
__God repented from the disaster that He
__had said He
would bring. That actually means
__that He did not repent
(from doing what He said He
__would do).
________________________. :radar:
__Obviously God did not repent and change
__His previous intended course of action. :chuckle:

__Here’s why, it’s because He
did do what He
__
always was going to do, yep, it’s really simple, so
__that “is” what those words “actually” mean.
_______________
:dunce: :readthis: :freak:
___________God is true :cloud9: and
__________Z Man :freak: is :eek: false :dunce:
 
Last edited:

5Solas=Truth

New member
Eph 1:11 ESV In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,"

All things, no exceptions, the only thing that limits God is God.....


In the begining God vreated man, ever since that time, man has been trying to repay the favor..... eg OTer's.....
 

1Way

+OL remote satellite affiliate
the willfully blind can not see...

the willfully blind can not see...

5Solas=manmade tradition – You said
Eph 1:11 ESV In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,"

(1) All things, no exceptions, the only thing that limits God is God.....

(2) In the begining God vreated man, ever since that time, man has been trying to repay the favor..... eg OTer's.....
Thanks for willfully demonstrating how obvious it is that you closed viewer’s get your view from manmade tradition instead of God’s word.

(1) Eph 1:11 does not mean all things without exception, bravely going against longstanding manmade tradition, God says that man can and often does limit God.
  • Ps 78:41 Yes, again and again they tempted God, And limited the Holy One of Israel.
  • Lu 13:34 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen [gathers] her brood under [her] wings, but you were not willing!
  • Lu 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him.
(2) We OVer’s accept God’s role and place in creation, namely that God is not in control of everything without exception, He is the ultimate authority over everything without exception and in that capacity God has obviously given man certain freedoms and delegated authority including to accept or reject the will of God for themselves.

But, you closed viewer’s obviously exceed and contradict the bible’s teachings thus limiting the Holy one of Israel with your manmade traditions and make Him into something less godly than He really is. So your wrong on this issue, but it’s always good to see such blatantly false teachings exposed for the foolishness that they are, so to that extent, thanks for that excellent example.
 
Last edited:

1Way

+OL remote satellite affiliate
5Solas - LOL Note the glaring biblical inconsistency 5 manmade traditions holds if we but consider a verse or two around his pet verse. Consider
  • Eph 1:10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth——in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
The “all things according to the counsel of His will” thought is a prelim of the following idea that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. So obviously the only things this “all things” is referring to is specifically stated as being those who “... trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory”. And 5Solas obviously does not believe that everyone will be saved, so v.10’s “gathered together in Him”, and v.12 refers to a limited idea of only those who will be saved, not those “outside of Christ” and are going to hell.

This passage is about a wonderful doctrine of predestinatory adoption, it is not some universal

“all”
means
“all without exception”

passage.
  • Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Obviously the only reason 5 solas tried to insert a universal thought into one (ripped out of context) verse (where the entire passage declares is only about the few who end up getting saved) is because he is desperately trying to protect his manmade doctrine in the light of how terribly the closed view opposes God’s word via divine repentance for one example. Hence he does not respond to the divine repentance passages, instead he rips the context of yet another scripture in order to falsify God’s word as though it supports his tradition.

It is a very sad state of affairs from the closed theist, violating God’s word to promote manmade tradition.
 
Last edited:

smaller

BANNED
Banned
Perhaps 1Way can cast his lot with godulz's position of open theisim, that being God is powerful enough to control the outcome of any event...(still laughing over that one)
 

1Way

+OL remote satellite affiliate
Smaller – More foolishness from you can not make your foolishness that much better, it’s still just a pile of foolishness.

God can control every and any event if He wanted to, the open view does not contradict God’s abilities. Also, we open viewers see all of God’s attributes in full brilliant function in Him granting man the freedom and responsibility and authority that He has naturally given us. Only a

sick,
unloving,
ungodly,
completely selfish,
control freak

would feel the need to control everything without exception. You’re a sicko, so it’s not much of a surprise that your pretend god is much like you. Such a poor baby control freak would just crack and die if anyone dared freely reject him.

You are a moron smaller, you hold to a classically taught, not biblically taught, unchanging God so much that you deny that God must remain the eternal everlasting God of the bible. For you, the everlasting God of the bible could make Himself to have never existed, which is perhaps the most absurd and moronic thing anyone may believe, while claiming to be a bible believer.

So, you’re a self exposed exceeding moron who happens to ice your cake with divine murder and immoral lying.

Who knows, maybe the brave Z Man will post that he now believes smallishly that God murders and lies (immorally)? After all, the closed view is outside of the truth from God and His word.
 

5Solas=Truth

New member
Eph 1:11 leaves no doubt for the honest and (truly) open reader of the Bible as to the extent of God's sovereign control, and it is absolute. If people want to put their philosophical presuppositions concerning God's nature first like the Open Theists (Process philosophers in thin disguise), and are not open to correction (read: "willful ignorance and disobedience"), then I can only hope God has mercy on their souls if (and they obviously already have)they lead any of His little ones astray. Get ready to get fitted for the millstone collar.

"All things are attributed to the grace of God without exception, and yet for all that we are not statues, for he gives us grace both to want, and to be able to do those things that are good; (Phi_2:13)."
Geneva

"Of God, the universal agent. The affirmation here (in Eph. 1:11) is not merely that God accomplishes the designs of salvation according to the counsel of his own will, but that “he does everything.” His agency is not confined to one thing, or to one class of objects. Every object and event is under his control, and is in accordance with his eternal plan. The word rendered “worketh” - ἐνεργέω energeō - means to work, to be active, to produce; Eph_1:20; Gal_2:8; Phi_2:13. A universal agency is ascribed to him. “The same God which “worketh” all in all;” 1Co_12:6. He has an agency in causing the emotions of our hearts. “God, who worketh in you both to Will and to do of his good pleasure;” Phi_2:13. He has an agency in distributing to people their various allotments and endowments. “All these worketh that one and the self-same Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will;” 1Co_12:11.
The agency of God is seen everywhere. Every leaf, flower, rose-bud, spire of grass; every sun-beam, and every flash of lightning; every cataract and every torrent, all declare his agency; and there is not an object that we see that does not bespeak the control of an All-present God. It would be impossible to affirm more explicitly that God’s agency is universal, than Paul does in the passage before us....
"After the counsel of his own will" - Not by consulting his creatures, or conforming to their views, but by his own views of what is proper and right. We are not to suppose that this is by “mere” will, as if it were arbitrary, or that he determines anything without good reason. The meaning is, that his purpose is determined by what “he” views to be right, and without consulting his creatures or conforming to their views. His dealings often seem to us to be arbitrary. We are incapable of perceiving the reasons of what he does. He makes those his friends who we should have supposed would have been the last to have become Christians. He leaves those who seem to us to be on the borders of the kingdom, and they remain unmoved and unaffected. But we are not thence to suppose that he is arbitrary. In every instance, we are to believe that there is a good reason for what he does, and one which we may be permitted yet to see, and in which we shall wholly acquiesce.
The phrase “counsel of his own will” is remarkable. It is designed to express in the strongest manner the fact that it is not by human counsel or advice. The word “counsel” - βουλή boulē - means “a council” or “senate;” then a determination, purpose, or decree; see Robinson’s Lexicon. Here it means that his determination was formed by his own will, and not by human reasoning. Still, his will in the case may not have been arbitrary. When it is said of man that he forms his own purposes, and acts according to his own will, we are not to infer that he acts without reason. He may have the highest and best reasons for what he does, but he does not choose to make them known to others, or to consult others. So it may be of God, and so we should presume it to be. It may be added, that we ought to have such confidence in him as to believe that he will do all things well. The best possible evidence that anything is done in perfect wisdom and goodness, is the fact that God does it. When we have ascertained that, we should be satisfied that all is right." (Barnes)

"predestination is not only to sonship, but to an inheritance; it not only secures the grace of adoption, but prepares and provides an heavenly portion: and this act of predestination proceeds according to a purpose; according to a purpose of God, which can never be frustrated; and according to the purpose of "that God", as one of Stephens's copies reads, that is the author of all things but sin; of the works of creation and of providence, and of grace and salvation; and who works all these according to his will, just as he pleases, and according to the counsel of it, in a wise and prudent manner, in the best way that can be devised; for he is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working; wherefore his counsel always stands, and he does all his pleasure: and hence the inheritance which the saints obtain in Christ, and are predestinated to, is sure and certain." (Gill)
 
Top