Dan Emanuel
Active member
I'll follow you're lead on that.
Right, He can't be, because otherwise Who is speaking in Matthew 17:5 KJV? Its not Jesus.
Daniel
Do you have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian?
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
Daniel
Dan Emanuel
Active member
Yes, they don't get this simple logic.
Do you not believe that the authors believed every word of the Master Teacher? The authors therefore do not see physical death in their writings because Yeshua Says:
John 8:51
51. Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
If you do not understand that the authors of the apostolic writings keep all of the sayings of Yeshua then how can you possibly understand what they themselves have written? They do not "see" physical death because also Yeshua says that "the flesh profits nothing" in the passage which was just referenced in my previous statements above:
John 6:63 KJV
63. It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Now therefore you have a carnal tradition of the physical upside down crucifixion of Peter and you say that glorifies the Father? Who exactly is your Father? Mine is Love and He does not seek to have His people brutally physically murdered for His glory. Therefore it is your flesh man paradigm and your fellows here like PPS calling others here "hyper allegorists" that can see no light because your flesh has blinded you to supernal things written in the holy Scripture:
John 21:18-19 KJV
18. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, [the old man nature] thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, [between two chains] and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.
19. This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.
Acts 12:6-8
6. And when Herod would have brought him forth, the same night Peter was sleeping between two soldiers, bound with two chains: [hands spread apart] and the keepers before the door kept the prison.
7. And, behold, an Angel of YHWH came upon him, and a light shined in the prison: and he smote Peter in the side, [literally the rib] and raised him up, saying, Arise up quickly! And his chains fell off from his hands.
8. And the Angel said unto him, Gird thyself, and bind on thy sandals. And so he did. And he said unto him, Cast thy garment about thee, and follow me!
:sheep:
But often on these forums belief trumps logic.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
Of course he did.
Now all you have to do is provide the veracity of the Epistle of Barnabas.
I guess you're a full-blown esotericist. Wow, who knew?
genuineoriginal
New member
The Bible does state what is necessary for salvation.
Belief in the trinity is nowhere to be found in the list.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Ever read Mathew 6:9-13?
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Jesus made it very clear that they were to forgive as part of that gospel period.
Matthew 18:21-22
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
Luke 6:37
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
What about us?
Ephesians 4:32
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
In our case we are to forgive because God for Christ's sake, has forgiven us.
2 Corinthians 2:7
So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.
2 Corinthians 2:10
To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;
Evidently, the people in
Mark 2:7 "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"
were not educated in who can forgive.
They did not know
We can forgive sins committed against US
Only God can forgive sins committed against God
...got it now?
Only God can forgive sins committed against God
...got it now?
genuineoriginal
New member
Both God and His appointed representative can forgive sins committed against God.
This is one of the lessons shown in Luke 16, The parable of the shrewd manager.
The Gospels also make it clear who the appointed representative of God is.
John 5:22 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: |
so true, sadly.
That's why they make up their own doctrines to divide His followers, and they don't even recognize it.
You are right.
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
I wonder what the understanding of the thief on the cross was with regard to trinitarian doctrine?
drbrumley
Well-known member
The question must be asked, who is Christ?
drbrumley
Well-known member
Maybe a reading of Hebrews 1 is in order for you.
genuineoriginal
New member
What does scripture say?
Matthew 16:13-17King James Version (KJV) 13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. |
Do you believe this?
genuineoriginal
New member
Maybe you should read it again.
Hebrews 1:1-2 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; |
drbrumley
Well-known member
That's right. But let's continue reading farther...
1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.