PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
I don't think anyone who has much knowledge of Church history would doubt the account of Peter's death.
My comment was purely light-hearted humor.
Do you have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian?
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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I don't think anyone who has much knowledge of Church history would doubt the account of Peter's death.
My comment was purely light-hearted humor.
Dan Emanuel
Active member
No, they're are word's in they're, that indicate that God is quoted; "God said," twice. "God said." Does God say His Word in Genesis 1:26 KJV and Genesis 3:22 KJV?
Daniel
Dan Emanuel
Active member
Ask Mr. Religion
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It is disappointing that you would inject into this discussion matters of nuanced distinctions and perhaps spoil the well. It is a disservice to the basic premise of the OP and something that belongs in an exclusively Christian discussion—not in this "Religion" forum. I know you know this and it troubles me you would take the OP as an opportunity to beat your usual drums about the topic. To every thing there is a season...no?
The basics of the Trinity are accessible to anyone who claims to be a Christian. Of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, if we say anything, we must say:
1. The Father is God;
2. the Son is God;
3. the Holy Spirit is God;
4. the Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit;
5. the Son is not the Father or the Holy Spirit;
6. the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son; and
7. they are not three gods, but one God.
No we can, have, and perhaps will wax eloquent on the finer points of the plain statements above—but not herein.
That said, these simple statements amply suffice as starting points, each of which must be affirmed if one claims "Christian" describes their position.
If you can affirm these seven simple statements, then you have the obvious answer to your direct question as to how I view your claim to be "Christian".
AMR
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
I thought you were truly grouping me with non-/anti-Trinitarians and (potentially) non-Christians.
Your above response has clarified the threshold I was concerned about. Thank you, and I'll abstain from my approach.
:jump:
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
As I said, this will require some mutual understanding of the depth of Hebrew and Greek terms rather than English dilutions.
Logos is not merely God "saying".
Ask Mr. Religion
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iamaberean
New member
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
No. Why would the Epistle of Barnabas help?
Wow. I had no idea you were a hyper-Allegoricist. Interesting.
Ben Masada
New member
You have forgotten that Jesus was a Jew too and you are using a Jew to preach a Christian doctrine when Jesus never had any thing to do with it. Jesus never even dreamed that the NT would ever be written. Every time he referred to the Word of God or the Truth, he had the Tanach in his mind. If you read the NT with a scientific mind you ought to know that Paul was the one who fabricated the idea that Jesus was "Christ" the Messiah. (II Tim. 2:8) And that he was the son of God when the only reference to God's son is in the Torah under Exod. 4:22,23. "Israel is My son..."
Ben Masada
New member
No, whatever you are or become, if you believe that Jesus was "Christ" you are a Christian. That's all it takes.
Ben Masada
New member
Again, you don't even have to live the Scriptures like a disciple should. All you have to do is to believe that Jesus was "Christ." (Acts 11:26) It is like in Islam, if you confess that Allah is One and Mohamed His prophet, you become a Moslem.
Daniel1611
New member
Exactly. The three are one. God is Father, Son and Holy Ghost, and he is one. Great analogy, iamberean!
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Barnabas knew all too well how to compare spiritual with spiritual.
John 3:8 KJV
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth , and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh , and whither it goeth : so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
You are missing his point.
John 8:24 That is why I told you that you will die in your sins, for unless you believe that I AM, you'll die in your sins."
I Am is the name of God given to moses.
Looks like Christ is saying if you dont believe He is God, you will die in your sins.
Scripture also states that only God can forgive sin.
Mark 2:7 "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"
Isaiah 43:25
"I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more.
You usurp Jesus' authority. You set up your own qualification for salvation.
How arrogant. Your don't have spirit of Jesus. Your Lord is not Jesus.
Your tradition is "as reliable as the Scripture"? Not for me:
John 21:18 = Acts 12:6
Perhaps you might find this useful in the "Exclusively Christian Theology" board in your arguments because they all appear to assume that the debate over whether pneuma is spirit, wind, or breath, when and where, is done and over, and thus, everywhere it is rendered inaccurately has caused much misunderstanding. By the Testimony of Yeshua we read that testimony itself is spirit because he says that the words that he speaks, they are spirit, and they are life. The debate is not over on this subject, except for the close-minded, and this is one of the huge gaping holes in their theories and postulations.
John 3:8 KJV
8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
John 3:8 YLT
8. the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.'